I used to love Pastor John Piper, but does he believe in Lordship Salvation?

Wesley went too far with his ideas on sanctification. He believed that Christians could be cleansed from original sin, or depravity ... could reach a point where they would no longer sin.
https://www.christiansforchrist.com/articles/theology/john-wesleys-doctrine-of-christian-perfection/
Aside: I would stay clear of Wesley's theology (not saying he all wrong, but he would be way down my preferred reading list)

Or you can go to the web site of Bethlehem Baptist Church, where Piper was the Senior pastor, and has now retired.

When you check out their beliefs you see that they are trying for a compromise between Reformed Theology, Baptist beliefs, and Charismatic beliefs. No church can have such a mishmash without compromising Bible truth.

Some people cannot articulate clearly what they believe which may be a problem if they are trying to explain to someone else their faith.

Thankyou Yes. I ended up idolising Wesley, and had to repent/detox, but sometimes his words do cut through the heart y know?
P.S I believe in entire sanctification! (With men this is impossible, but with G_d, all things are possible). 😁

Yes, you are so right.

Some people are not able to explain things properly, or to persuade others away from wrong doing.

And if you are not careful, you will get depressed in your walk with God when you listen to misleading messages. Because if someone says as a Christian, if your life is not perfect, you're not saved. As Judges1318 said, it's a journey.

But the message that says you can live any kind of way is also wrong.

Salvation by grace is not an easy topic, that's why it causes so much arguments, and confusion.

Depressed OR delivered 😁

Depressed OR delivered 😁

If the message is misleading and you follow it, you will get depressed or frustrated.

You submit to Jesus as Lord BECAUSE you are saved, not in exchange for salvation.
Salvation changes a person into a person who loves Jesus and wants to serve him.
The person in whom Jesus is not Lord is not saved, their disobedience bearing witness to the absence of the Holy Spirit in their lives in salvation.

What do you think of the following statements:
"Once saved always saved"

"Works do not save you"

"Works have northing to do with salvation"

"Faith will save you"

You do not know the definition of Lordship salvation, lol.

I reject it as an official doctrine that says any and all true believers will without exception never fall away.

I think the only believer who can make any kind of reasonable claim that they will never fall away would be the 4th type of soil believer in the Parable of the Sower. The 4th type of soil is the one in which Jesus said the word is retained and perseveres:

"15But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop." - Luke 8:15



Works have absolutely no power to earn a person a declaration of right standing before God.


Works have nothing to do with being justified (made righteous before God).
But they do have something to do with salvation in that the faith that justifies apart from works is the faith that works righteousness in a person:

"The only thing that counts (towards justification) is faith expressing itself through love." - Galatians 5:6 (parentheses mine)

If one's 'faith' does not find expression in the obedience of godly love, they probably don't have the faith that justifies all by itself apart from works. Saving faith changes a person because it solicits the indwelling Holy Spirit. Works are the evidence of the indwelling Holy Spirit in salvation. No changed/ changing life means no indwelling Holy Spirit is present to cause that change in a person.


Faith apart from works is in fact the way through which a person is justified before God.
But it would be impossible to separate that faith from a life of works, and I think that's where the confusion comes in for some who think their 'faith that is alone' is the faith that saves.

If you feel someone does not understand the definition than, why don't you help someone out and explain it to them kindly?

Works have nothing to do with being justified (made righteous before God).
But they do have something to do with salvation in that the faith that justifies apart from works is the faith that works righteousness in a person:

So the same faith that justifies apart from work, is the same faith that spurs on a believer to work. This is really deep. I've tried many times to explain this concept to myself, in order to explain to others also.

So the same faith that justifies apart from work, is the same faith that spurs on a believer to work. This is really deep. I've tried many times to explain this concept to myself, in order to explain to others also.

Harmonising the scripture is sometimes a challenge. Because in one place it clearly says, saved by grace. And in another place it says faith and works go together James 2:14.

But I've heard that James 2:14 is not referring to salvation.

Harmonising the scripture is sometimes a challenge. Because in one place it clearly says, saved by grace. And in another place it says faith and works go together James 2:14.

What is the definition of salvation if James2:14 is not referring to it?
Is it not referring to faith apart from works or salvation as a whole?
Is salvation a process or an event?
Is justification, regeneration, sanctification etc separated from salvation?