( whoso readeth, let him understand: )

The intent of this thread is to help Christians better understand a very commonly overlooked and ignored part of Olivet Discourse prophecy.

The parenthetical phrase in the title (found in Matthew 24:15), along with the Mark 13:14 counterpart, are 'key' to understanding the prophecy.

Before we get to what it means (that the Jews understood very well), I want to remind you of something concerning the three accounts of the Olivet Discourse (Matthew, Mark, Luke).

The three [separate] accounts of the Olivet Discourse are just exactly that - three accounts of the same event by three different writers.

While it is true that some of the details of the Olivet Discourse event are not recorded exactly the same way or in the exact same words in all three accounts (or, even, recorded in all three accounts - being left out of one or both of the other accounts), it is still [also] true - and does not change - that it is simply-and-only the same one event being recorded by three different writers.

The 'witness' of the event is the same for all three writers:

~ Matthew did not witness anything different than Mark or Luke.

~ Mark did not witness anything different than Matthew or Luke.

~ Luke did not witness anything different than Matthew or Mark.

You may find the following chart containing a table of coordinated verses of scripture to be useful in "visualizing" the continued discussion:

http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Olivet_Discourse.html

If you will note on the chart that each row of the table aligns verses from the three accounts that "go together" in the overall "picture" of the Olivet Discourse.

Examine row 15 very carefully.

Now I will explain the meaning of the parenthetical statements "in reverse" . . . (I think it may make more sense to you this way.)

What Matthew and Mark "encrypted" - along with the 'decryption key' (the parenthetical statement) - Luke "just came out and said it" (simple, straight, and point-blank).

All three writers are saying the exact same thing.

The thing that the Jews understood that [most] modern Bible students do not - is that Matthew and Mark were making an indirect reference to the Abomination of Desolation and not a literal direct one.

They made reference to what Daniel was referring to and not the event Daniel was referring to.

The event Daniel was referring to occurred in 167 B.C.

The Jews understood them to be saying, in effect, that "when you see [what happened at the time of the AoD] begin/start to happen again" . . .

What happened at the time of the AoD that they understood?

Luke wrote it very simply and directly.

If you study the history, you will find that the description that Luke wrote is exactly what happened at the time of the AoD. (the surrounding of Jerusalem by/with armies and the desolation of Jerusalem)

The Matthew and Mark verses in row 15 are NOT actually saying "when you see the event occur (that Daniel is referring to)"; rather, they are saying "when you see [what happened at the time of the event (that Daniel is referring to)] occur" . . .

The actual event time for what Luke wrote is/was ~70 A.D.

What Matthew and Mark wrote is simply a different way of saying the same exact thing Luke said.

All three accounts are saying the exact same thing.

This is what you need to remember.

The explanation is for the purpose of helping you understand why and how it is that all three accounts are actually saying the same thing.

The verses in row 15 were fulfilled ~70 A.D.

So were these events a precursor of events to come? Or are you saying they were already fulfilled?

Meaning that there won't be an upcoming "son of perdition" that exalts himself in the temple of God (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4), and a "great tribulation" which will be worse than anything that has happened since the beginning of the world, also will be the last. (Matthew 24:21)

If we look at history, we can see cycles being repeated.

I believe:

~ The "great tribulation" as spoken of in Matthew 24:21 started ~70 A.D.
~ We are currently in it.
~ It will end at some point in time in the future.
~ The worst is yet to come.

~ There will not be another brick-and-mortar temple. (At least, not that God will recognize - and, that would be valid for the Bible to call "temple of God"...)

I will have to address the other thing later.

Olivet Discourse prophecy is past, present, and future.

Revelation prophecy is past, present, and future.

Not all past. Not all future.

Both have been "unfolding" over the past ~2000 years.

Yes - and, if anyone wants to suggest that ~70 A.D. represents a 'second' AoD - that is fine with me. However, the main thing is - what I wrote in post #2.

I believe the actual AoD 'event' that Daniel refers to occurred in 167 B.C.

The very reason for the parenthetical statements in Matthew and Mark is because the Jews did understand that the event referenced had already occurred back in 167 B.C.

We do not know if what Jesus actually said was more like what Luke wrote (whereas Matthew and Mark 'encoded' it) or what Matthew and Mark wrote (whereas Luke 'decoded' it).

I am thinking that the Luke account is probably the closest.

From Chuck Missler. I am in agreement with this, and not the op.

It is ironic that Jesus’ opening imperative in His “Olivet Discourse” is “Take heed that no man deceive you.”1 This is His command, but it begs a question of means: “How do we avoid that?” There seems to be more conjectures and misunderstandings over this passage than almost any other in the New Testament.
The tools to avoid deception derive from a study of epistemology: the study of knowledge — its scope and limits. Our exploration of this passage will challenge more than simply our hermeneutics alone. It will challenge our grasp of the whole eschatological plan in its entirety.
For many students of eschatology — the study of last things — the so-called Olivet Discourse has proven to be a troublesome passage, with many finding it confusing and ostensibly self-contradictory; a hermeneutical battleground between the dispensationalists and the preterists, etc. The preterists insist that this passage — and the Book of Revelation — has been already fulfilled, and much of it is dismissed by them as simply allegorical. Yet even those who embrace a dispensational view have difficulty reconciling many of the Olivet Discourse passages.
Resolving Power
In optics, the resolving power of a telescope determines its ability to distinguish between two close, but distinct, stars. An apparent single star viewed with a cheap telescope turns out to be a pair of distinctly separate stars when viewed with a telescope of better optical quality. This quality is known as the “resolving power” of its optics.
We seem to have an analogous situation here. In this case, we may benefit by setting aside our presumptions and presuppositions and let the several texts speak for themselves.
A Hazardous Tradition
The traditional “harmonization of the Gospels” is part of the problem. Ever since Augustine, scholars have attempted to meld the four distinct Gospels into a combined narrative. While this can be useful for a cursory review of the life of Christ, it can also result in a myopia of sorts and the Olivet Discourse (recorded in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21) is a salient example.
Since Matthew was skilled in shorthand, we tend to lean on his detailed rendering. And yet there seems to be a substantial disparity between his record and that of Luke’s. Numerous elements appear identical in both accounts, so it has been fashionable — for 1700 years — to assume that they both deal with the same event. Attempts to “harmonize” them have continued to yield a treacherous minefield of confusion.
Trusting the Texts
It seems that setting aside all of our presuppositions, and simply trusting the integrity of the texts may improve our “resolving power” in addressing these passages.
Jesus called us to respect the details,2 so let’s take a closer look at each of them. They each may be focusing on different events from a different perspective and maybe even addressing different audiences on different occasions. The similarities of expression in the various accounts may have caused us to jump to premature conjectures, etc.
The Beginning of Sorrows
Matthew’s account opens with a series of ominous signs:
Luke’s account contains the ostensibly identical series of signs:
It would seem that these, and many other similarities throughout the respective passages, appear to be a summary of the same teachings by our Lord on the same occasion. (Many scholars note that these specific signs also seem to parallel the same series of signs in the opening of the Seven Seals in Revelation Chapter 6. See graphic.)
Matthew’s account continues, “Then shall” (verses 9, 10, 11, et al.). The bulk of his record deals with events after these “sorrows” or birth pangs. He (as well as Mark) further introduces — and emphasizes — an additional sign that is omitted from Luke’s account:
This proves to be a major verse for a number of reasons. Here Jesus saves us hours of boring library research by authenticating the authorship of Daniel, and his role as a prophet. Jesus also referred to a key historical event: the desecration of the Temple by Antiochus Epiphanes that had occurred two centuries earlier in 167 B.C.
This historical event was well known to every Jew, and the subsequent rededication of the desecrated Temple is still celebrated every year at Hanukkah. (This is even alluded to in John 10:22.)
The “Abomination of Desolation” refers to Antiochus’ establishing an idol to Zeus in the Holy of Holies that precipitated the Macabbean revolt, which ultimately threw off the Seleucid yoke and ushered in the rule of the Hasmoneans. It is referred to four times in Daniel.3
But here, Jesus is indicating that this desecration will happen again and that this time it will usher in a period that Jesus Himself labels “the Great Tribulation” (quoting from Daniel4 and which Jeremiah called “the time of Jacob’s trouble.”5 (Both Matthew’s and Mark’s renderings also include the parenthetical admonition to the reader for understanding!)
Luke’s Divergence
Luke’s account focuses on a siege of Jerusalem that is substantially divergent from the Matthew account. It is the presumption that they are both dealing with the same event that is the source of misunderstandings. Everyone seems to overlook what Luke says after mentioning the famed series of signs:
Luke then focuses on a desolation of Jerusalem that precedes the series of signs that earmark both passages! Matthew focuses on a desolation that follows that same series of signs. Luke’s rendering deals with the fall of Jerusalem that occurred 38 years later in 70 A.D. Matthew all but ignores it.
Luke notes that “this generation shall not pass away until all be fulfilled.”6 It is interesting that Jerusalem fell 38 years later, the very same duration that it took for that earlier generation to expire during the wanderings in the wilderness.7
In contrast, Matthew’s account deals with events that follow that same series of signs, including the Abomination of Desolation announced in Matthew 24:15.
(Some try to suggest that this event happened during the siege of 70 A.D., but that is contrary to the substantial eye witness accounts recorded. A war was going on and no idol was so established, “standing in the Holy Place,” etc. In fact, Titus was frustrated by the fire that broke out in the Temple8 and he later had to command his soldiers to dismantle it “stone by stone” to recover the gold that had melted, etc.9 This, too, was a fulfillment of our Lord’s prophecy.10)
It is important to note the details of the attacks of the Romans in 66–70 A.D. Vespasian and his son, Titus, were sent by Nero to make war with the Jews.11However, the death of Nero delayed the siege, and subsequently Vespasian acceded to the throne of the empire and left his son Titus to complete the siege.12Luke’s account had warned his listeners:

Over 1,100,000 perished in the siege. Those who heeded Jesus’ warning apparently escaped. Some scholars infer that few, if any, Christians perished in the siege.
By contrast, Matthew’s account conspicuously terminates with the Second Coming of Christ and the cosmic upheavals incident thereto, which are alluded to in both accounts.
When we were in school, learning to diagram sentences was useful in understanding grammar: subject, predicate, adverbial phrases, etc. Here, too, a composite diagram may prove helpful (see graphic).
Matthew’s account, written for the Jews, seems destined to be a survival handbook for those enduring the forthcoming unprecedented time.
Luke’s, on the other hand, written for the Gentiles, seems to totally ignore the Great Tribulation. In fact, it would seem that his readers shouldn’t be concerned:
(The word for “redemption,” apolutrosis, appears nine times in the New Testament, and always is used to refer to the redemption of the Body.)
There are numerous complex issues that still emerge from these several accounts. It isn’t clear that they even occurred at the same time or place.
Matthew and Mark clearly identify a private briefing on the Mount of Olives to the “insider” group of disciples (see graphic). Luke, on the other hand, remarks:
Clearly, a side-by-side verse-by-verse study of these passages is essential. To facilitate a more detailed review of these much debated issues, see our briefing package: This Generation: Resolving The Olivet Discourse.

To each his own - but, I believe Chuck Missler is operating on deception...

Don't over-analyze and complicate it --- a close examination of the verses (row 15) will show them to be talking about the very same exact thing.

You can't make them say what you want them to say. You must accept what they actually say.

And, it takes a lot of imagination to believe they are not talking about the same 'event' at the same point in time.

Anyone wanting to refute my explanation of the title parenthetical statement should provide a better one that we may all consider.

The parenthetical statements in Matthew and Mark are the focus of this thread.

Let's stay on track...

Don't post a bunch-o-stuff from Chuck Missler or anyone else if it does not contain a solid explanation for the parenthetical statements in Matthew and Mark which are the focus of this thread.

I agree. But rather than directing our attention to the accounts in the Gospels, Christ was pointing us back to the prophecy of Daniel, and how much detail it provides regarding the Antichrist and the Abomination of Desolation and how they are connected with the history of the Jews and the Gentile empires which dominated Palestine since the Babylonian empire. Almost the entire prophecy of Daniel revolves around this matter.

DANIEL 12: THE ANTICHRIST, THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION, AND THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST
6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?
7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. [Note: this alludes to the reign of the Antichrist for 3 1/2 years]
8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? [Note: this alludes to the Second Coming of Christ]
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. [Note: this alludes to the Second Coming of Christ]
10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand. [See Matthew 24:15 "whoso readeth let him understand"]
11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. [Note: this alludes to the Abomination of Desolation, and just over half the 70th week of Daniel]
12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. [Note: this alludes to just over half the 70th week of Daniel]
13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days. [Note: this alludes to the Resurrection/Rapture when Daniel will also be resurrected]

1260 days = 42 months = 3 1/2 years (time, times, half a time)
1290 days = 43 months
1335 days = 44.5 months
We do not really know what those extra months signify.

Note: there are many who have gratuitously changed those days to years, but the Hebrew does not allow such changes.

I agree! I currently believe that there will be another repeat. Israel is also wanting to rebuild the temple (3rd) and institute animal sacrifice again. As believers we should already know that our bodies are the temple, not a physical building. We are the Body of Christ, each of us serving as different parts of that Body. Here's scripture:

John 2:21 But he (Jesus) spake of the temple of his body.

1 Corinthians 3:16-17 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? (17) If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

2 Corinthians 6:16 What agreement can there be between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God—as God said, "I will house myself in them, . . . and I will walk among you. I will be their God, and they will be my people."

1 Corinthians 12:12-13 For just as the body is one but has many parts; and all the parts of the body, though many, constitute one body; so it is with the Messiah. (13) For it was by one Spirit that we were all immersed into one body, whether Jews or Gentiles, slaves or free; and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.


Unfortunately, Israel is still going based upon legalistic works in pursuit of righteousness. Yet, there's more and more coming to the Messiah. Should check out the YouTube Channel OneForIsrael. There's still a remnant.

Romans 9:31-32 However, Isra'el, even though they kept pursuing a Torah (Law) that offers righteousness, did not reach what the Torah (Law) offers. (32) Why? Because they did not pursue righteousness as being grounded in trusting but as if it were grounded in doing legalistic works. They stumbled over the stone that makes people stumble.

I personally believe we should be vigilant and watch out for deceivers. Just like Jesus and the Apostles warned us of. There are many antichrists. The crazy thing is that it might be one posing as one of the believers. A judas.

2 John 1:7-9 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, people who do not acknowledge Yeshua the Messiah's coming as a human being. Such a person is a deceiver and an anti-Messiah. (8) Watch yourselves, so that you won't lose what you have worked for, but will receive your full reward. (9) Everyone who goes ahead and does not remain true to what the Messiah has taught does not have God. Those who remain true to his teaching have both the Father and the Son.

Not only that, but there will be a falling away, then the man of sin will be revealed.

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; (4) Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Open for more insight, or correction. As long as it coincides with scripture.

Don't forget what triggers the resurrection. The conversion of the Jews. When they finally see Jesus like an only son.

Do you believe all of Daniel's prophecy is fulfilled?

No...........Daniel was speaking about a FUTURE EVENT in Daniel 12:11, we know that because of the very first two verses in Dan. 12.

Dan. 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice {Jesus is our DAILY SACRIFICE} shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

I personally don't get why people even try to argue this point, the verses above tell you its wrong. Then we see Micheal standing up in Rev. 12 casting Satan out of Heaven and delivering the Fleeing Jews to Petra where they are protected for 1260 days until the Second Coming,

Reverse the numbers via the way men think and it will all fall into place. {THIS was going to be my full comment, but I can never help myself when this subject arises !! Oh well}

The Angel asks the Man in Linen {Jesus IMHO} a question, when shall ass these wonders end. Jesus says this basically, from the time the Jews are Defeated/Scattered there will be 1260 days until these wonders end...or until the Second Coming of Jesus ends all these things Daniel was seeing in end-time dreams and via Angelic teachings.

So, in verse 8, Daniel not understanding asks the exact same question the angel asked, what will be the END of these things. So, why would anyone not understand {I didn't for 30 years LOL} that the answer Daniel is going to get is in the same context, via the Second Coming ending all these wonders, even though Daniel knew not what was going to end these wonders, thus he was bewildered.

Now that we know what ends these wonders, we should be able to figure out what the 1290 and 1335 are by reverse-engineering the events. This is how I did it, I reverse engineered everything, and went looking for TWO EVENTS that matched the prophesies. Some things that always bothered me were solved by this new understanding.

Let's face it, the AoD happening at the 1290 either meant it happened 30 days before the Beast Conquers Jerusalem, or 30 days after he Conquers Jerusalem. Now, there are some who think these numbers go into the New Millenium, I just never understood that tbh. So, it would be hard for the Beast to set up an AoD in the Temple before he conquers Jerusalem and why would Jesus say, hey, here is your sign to flee, 30 days after the Beast Conquered Jerusalem, so as you can see, this never made any sense to me, for good reason. Another thing that always bothered me, how do the Jews know to Flee to Judea when they see this sign? Are they still living in doubt, or have they repented beforehand, thus they would no doubt understand Matthew 24. One last thing that always bothered me, why would Gabriel and the Man in Linen, who I think is Jesus, mention a PROFANE SACRIFICE beiNg taken away at the end times? It made no sense to me, you can't profane what is already profane !!

So my thought was, maybe it's not the Beast, let me test that out and see if it jibes with these numbers. Could the False Prophet, just before the Beast Conquers Jerusalem be the 1290 event? Well, I thought to myself, in Rev. 13 he is the one that places the IMAGE of the Beast [in the Temple I guess] and mandates worship the Beast or die. I via my study of Daniel 11 had already found a TYPE False Prophet in Jason, who bribed Antiochus to become the High Priest, thus having his Pious High Priest brother Onias III killed, his real name was Yeshua, so Jason was his Greek name so to speak. He tried to Hellenize the Jews, leading to the Maccabean Revolt. So, this coming False Prophet will be a Jewish High Priest, thus he has two horns like a lamb and speaks as a dragon. But, I couldn't see the whole picture as per why he would do this until I figured out what the 1335 was. So, my search continued.

What could THE BLESSING be? Bleesed is he that waits and comes to the 1335 !! Then I remembered a favorite scripture of mine, Malachi 4:5-6 that says God will send Elijah back BEFORE the Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord {1260 event}. So, it might be a fact that Israel repents before the DOTL, off to search this out I went. Well, in Zechariah 12:10 and 13:1 I saw Israel repents, then in Zechariah 13:8-9 I saw that 1/3 of Israel repent and 2/3 who refuse to repent will be cut-off or perish. And all of this happens just before the DOTL arrives in Zechariah 14:1-2, isn't it wondrous how scriptures always confirm God's truths? So, the 1335 is the Two-witnesses I thought, coming back BEFORE the DOTL {1260} at the 1335, which is 1335 days from the Second Coming, or 1335 days from when all these things end. I still needed to look deeper, to try the spirits so to speak.

Could the Two-witnesses actually show up before the Beast I thought? Does this fit? I knew both had ORDAINED OFFICES of 1260 days, I always wondered why the Two-witnesses must die, I think I know now, it so we can juxtapose the two via time. You see, it made perfect sense that the Two-witnesses would show up first {75 days before the Anti-Christ conquers Jerusalem to become the Beast} because the Two-witnesses die at the 2nd Woe while the Beast dies at the 7th Vial, later on. Thus that fit also, it all made perfect sense because it was all true.

The 1335 is the Two-witnesses showing up to turn Israel back unto God. This is of course THE BLESSING of all blessings.

The 1290 is a Jewish High Priest who is seething when he starts seeing Jews come to the Temple to worship Jesus Christ, thus he STOPS the Sacrifice {Jesus Worship} and places an IMAGE of the E.U. President in the Temple, I presume to mock the Jews who turned to Jesus Christ. So, he STOPS the Sacrifice and places the AoD all at the same time. This is the sign the Jews who repented needed to understand its time to get out of dodge, and in a hurry, they only understand this because they have read Matthew 24 and because they have been warned by the Two-witnesses that they need to flee to the Petra/Bozrah area, where God will protect them for 1260 days. This all happens just before the Beast Conquers Jerusalem, so the SIGN now made sense, its a 30 days heads up.

The 1260 is the Beast Conquering Jerusalem and then he chases after Israel {Rev. 12} but can't get at them.

Same parable spoke in different manners.

The temple at the time of Christ was the abomination of desolation .We are the temple always have been . God never lived in a temple made with the corrupted hands of mankind. He simply is not served by corrupted human hands .

In the last days the father spoke directly through his prophet, apostle Jesus . His life was a living parable . When he made or proved it was desolate. His words and action working as one give us the gospel understanding hid form natural unconverted mankind.

The unbelieving disciples did not understand the spiritual unseen understanding was hid from them. This was in order to teach them how to walk by faith (the unseen eternal) Just like on other occasion they must of thought he was blind they wanted him to return and see all the glory of natural unconverted mankind . He hid the meaning that way many times in parables

Mathew 23:38 and Mathew 24 1-3 Behold, your house (not his) is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of

No sign as a wonder was given .

There shall not be left here one stone. No false prophecy to build on other false prophecies.

Ye shall not see me. He is shown removing himself from the abomination desolation .He would have nothing to with it .His answer is seen by His movement showing the high mountain as all the kingdom of the world . The kingdoms that will be his in the new order.

It's NOT a parable.