Are you a Trinitarian, and if so, can you defend the doctrine?

The thought never occurred to me that the responses in this thread would have any bearing on how Jesus would respond to the poll. Why do you think they would?

Personally, I think the Messiah knows whether the Trinity is true or false.

As Jesus is the Son of the trinity I agree with you.

It seems then that we agree that Jesus himself wouldn’t select the fourth option. (While leaving that option available for other members to suggest as his choice.) That leaves three for him to choose from.

Jesus does answer this in Mark 12:

Mark 12:
32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:

Jesus' answer:

34 And Jesus, perceiving him, that he answered wisely, said to him, "Not far are you from the kingdom of God.And no one dared to inquire of Him any longer."


Verse 32 the Scribe claimed God is ONE and there is NONE BUT HE (Singular).

Verse 34 Jesus knows the Scribe said the TRUTH and told the Scribe he was not far from the Kingdom of God.


This tells me the Scribe believes there is only One Person representing God and Jesus confirms it.

The Scribe seems to choose the 3rd option with Jesus confirming it!

Interesting!

I think this is a well-reasoned argument. I find it persuasive.

Well, I have been thinking about this all night and I prayed. I believe what God told me makes it even more convincing to me is because this is a SCRIBE who answered God is ONE and twice calls God He in a singular term. A SCRIBEs entire career is copying the Bible. So a SCRIBE would know the Torah, Tanakh word for word, its meaning, its definitions, what terms and phrases like Elohim and "let's make man in our image" mean. And after all of that, the SCRIBE still tells Jesus to His face, GOD is ONE PERSON.

Now, that is not what shocks me that the SCRIBE tells Jesus GOD is ONE PERSON. What shocks me is that Jesus confirms it!

Why does that shock me?

Well, Jesus had no problem correcting the Pharisees and Scribes and calling them vipers and full of dead man's bones.

So, if the SCRIBE talking to Jesus was wrong, Jesus would have no issue correcting him. But instead, Jesus rewards him for the TRUTH!

I think we now know what God really is according to Mark 12 all because Jesus Himself (the WORD) confirms it!

So the God of the Jewish scribe and the God of Jesus (himself a Jewish rabbi and the promised Messiah) is only one person, the same person - the Father.

Both men are unitarians, not trinitarians. Both men would select the third option in the poll.

As men, they would choose the 3rd option from what we read in Mark 12.
And since we know Jesus is the WORD made flesh, so He most definitely is God, throws some kinks into this formula because His aggreeance puts what the Church Fathers claim into perfect perspective.

From the Church Fathers view:

God, then, having His own Word internal within His own bowels,
........... begat Him, emitting Him
........... along with His own wisdom before all things.

but the wisdom [Spirit in this instance is Sophia] of God which was in Him, and
........... His holy Word which was always present with Him.

^
What this is saying, that God, the WORD, the Wisdom are both internal and external of God Himself. They are not literally separate individuals running around. But each part of God is used in a Specific Manner.

When I first found this explanation by the Church Fathers, it threw me for a loop trying to line it up with Scripture. But I am going through the Bible again where you read 4 Old Testament and 2 New Testament verses to read the Bible in a calendar years time. I was a little slow and behind in the New Testament so I was making up for it when I read Mark Chapter 12. And KABOOM, it hit me like a ton of bricks. I am positive by knowing what all Jesus said concerning the Father and the Holy Spirit and tying that in with Mark 12 we get what I copied/pasted from the Church Fathers.

For the very first time in my entire life, I actually believe I can see God for WHOM HE truly is!
I can see the Divinity of God completely.
And I know that I know the real TRUTH!

I feel like a weight has been lifted and my eyes have been opened!

I have been just giddy and thanking God all day.

It's like that verse having a river of flowing water coming from you.

I feel like the Springs that Abraham and Isaac dug and water just bursted out.

I feel relieved!

I feel like I understand that verse, "the TRUTH will set you FREE!"

I feel like you do when you first accept Christ and know that you have been filled with the Holy Spirit!

I feel like Covid-19 needs to end so I can go PREACH!

“The one God. (a) theos is the most frequent designation of God in the NT. Belief in the one, only, and unique God (Matt. 23:9; Rom. 3:30; 1 Cor. 8:4,6; Gal. 3:20; 1 Tim. 2:5; Jas. 2:19) is an established part of Christian tradition. Jesus himself made the fundamental confession of Jud. his own and expressly quoted the Shema (Deut. 6:4-5; see Mk. 12:29-30; cf. Matt. 22:37; Lk. 10:27). This guaranteed continuity between the old and the new covenants. The God whom Christians worship is the God of the fathers (Acts 3:13; 5:30; 22:14), the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Acts 3:13; 7:32; cf. Matt. 22:32; Mk. 12:26; Lk. 20:37), the God of Israel (Matt. 15:31; Lk. 1:68; Acts 13:17), and the God of Jesus Christ (2 Cor. 1:3; Eph. 1:3; 1 Pet. 1:3).“

New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, Abridged Edition, p. 244

There is no God besides this one.

I recently started working with a JW that just won't quit, he practically runs to my truck every time I show up on site. We've discussed some issues but I feel it's time I lay out a proper presentation of the Trinity found in scripture. Please help @Sackcloth-N-Ashes @UnitedWithChrist What approach/order seems to work best for y'all, where do you start?

Found this article helpful: https://bible.org/article/jehovahs-witnesses-and-trinity

...The Alpha and the Omega
As I have witnessed to many Jehovah’s Witnesses, I have found some verses that work most effectively in proving the deity of Christ. Here are two of my favorite combination of verses.

The first verse is Revelation 1:8. I am reading from the Jehovah’s Witness Bible, and it reads, “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says Jehovah God. Ask the Witness, “What does Alpha and Omega mean?” They’ll reply,”The beginning and the end.” Then ask them, “How many Alphas and Omegas can you have?” They’ll answer, “Only one.” Make sure you get this point across, there is only one Alpha and Omega.

Then turn to Revelation 22:12-13 which says, “Look I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me....I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” Ask the Witnesses, “Who do you say the Alpha and Omega is?” They will say, “Jehovah.” Now take a careful look. The Alpha and Omega in verse twelve is coming quickly. Let’s see who is speaking in verse twelve.

Look at verse sixteen, “I Jesus, sent my angel to bear witness to you people of these things for the congregations. I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright morning star.” It is Jesus speaking in verse twelve. If there is any doubt go to verse 20 which says, “He that bears witness of these things says, ‘Yes; I am coming quickly’ Amen come Lord Jesus.” So it is clear that the Alpha and the Omega in verse twelve is Jesus. Here is a strong proof text that Jesus is God because both Jehovah and Jesus are called the Alpha and the Omega.

Another pair of verses that are effective when used together are Isaiah 44:6 and Revelation 1:17-18. Isaiah 44:6 says, “This is what Jehovah has said, ‘The king of Israel and the Repurchaser of him, Jehovah of armies, I am the first and I am the last.’“ Ask the Witnesses how many firsts and lasts can you have? It’s obvious to anyone you can only have one first and one last. Ask them, “Who is the first and the last?” They will say, “Jehovah.” Now turn to Revelation 1:17-18 which says, “Do not be fearful; I am the First and the Last, and the living one; and I became dead but look! I am living forever.” Who is speaking here? Obviously, it is Jesus for He died but is now alive, and guess what? He is called the First and the Last. Here again we see Jesus is God.

These are my favorite verses, and I have never had Witnesses refute these arguments. Remember, the Witnesses at your door won’t convert right then and there. The key is to get them to start thinking and questioning the organization, and down the road, maybe in several years, they will seek answers and that will lead them out of the organization. Don’t give up or be discouraged when sharing with Witnesses. Though they may be rude and show no signs that they are thinking, the Word of God is powerful and is working in their hearts even if we can’t see it.

Show them how salvation is Trinitarian in essence. How the Father, Son, & Holy Spirit covenanted to save His ppl from their sins.

i would like to know how salvation is based on the trinity doctrine.

The promise from the Father to the Son for a redeemed people, a people born from above by the Spirit...

Are all the people before the 500s in hell because they were born before the Trinity doctrine was invented?

Oh I see, you’re prowling about looking for a fight.

Did you not have an answer?

Jehovah Witness?

There is no real Daddy and Junior in Heaven!


The WORD is begat (not the Hebrew begat where a man and woman have a child)(there were no women and men when the WORD was begat). That takes us to the SECOND MEANING/DEFINITION of begat, for a PURPOSE. So, the WORD was begat for a PURPOSE. Therefore, there is no Daddy and Junior because the PURPOSE of the WORD is Creation, to Die for Sins, to secure our Resurrection, and eventually be JUDGE.

So that means the WORD is still both INTERNAL and EXTERNAL of God like this explanation:

God, then, having His own Word internal within His own bowels,
........... begat Him, emitting Him
........... along with His own wisdom before all things.

In other words, the reason Jesus is the EXPRESS IMAGE to God, or the VISIBLE IMAGE to the INVISIBLE GOD, is because the WORD is not a biological offspring, but still a working part of God used for a Purpose. Therefore, they are the SAME GOD but just different parts of the SAME GOD! The same with God's WISDOM (Holy Spirit). Its PURPOSE to be begat by God was to confirm Christ and to indwell us and GIFT us the Power of God. We can see this by reading the Bible how the Spirit led them what to write.