Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
it's important to put verse 3 with vv. 4-5
We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure, which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer; since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels . . .
(1 Thessalonians 1:3-7)
in 4-5 Paul isn't praying that they be counted worthy of the kingdom of God.(1 Thessalonians 1:3-7)
in 4-5 Paul is thanking God for them, thanking God that their faith grows exceedingly, that their love abounds toward each other - thanking God that he and the disciples with him may boast of their patience, their faith in all their troubles, thanking God because their faith, their love and their patience is evidence or God's righteous judgement that He has counted them worthy -- that these things God is working in them, patience, love, and faith, are evidence that He will give them rest when the Lord Jesus returns.
in 3-7 Paul is sure that God has counted them worthy of His kingdom -- he's telling them how he thanks God for it, that he sees their love, their patience, and their faith as evidence of their salvation. how he rejoices over them.
verse 11 is saying something else. it has to do with verses 10 & 12
. . when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.
Therefore we also pray always for you that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of His goodness and the work of faith with power, that the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and you in Him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
(1 Thessalonians 1:10-12)
here Paul and those with him are praying always for them that God would 'fulfill all the good pleasure of His goodness and the work of faith with power' -- that Christ be glorified in them and them in Him.
so there are two prayers expressed in this chapter.
in 3-5 there is a prayer of thanksgiving to God for their salvation, having been counted worthy of His kingdom, that being manifest by their faith, their love for each other, and their patience.
in 11-12 there is a prayer that God would count them worthy of fulfilling His will in them with power, that Christ would be glorified in them and that they be glorified in Him.
i don't think it makes sense that in vv. 11-12 Paul is praying for their salvation. in vv. 4-5 he is thanking God because their love, patience and faith is manifest evidence that God has indeed given them salvation.
i think it makes more sense that in vv. 11-12 Paul is actually praying that they be found worthy to endure more suffering, that God finds them worthy to work in their faith with great power -- so that Christ will be glorified further still and they also, in Him.
like what we read in Acts 5:41, Colossians 1:11, 1:24, Romans 5:3, 1 Peter 4:13 etc. rejoice when God has counted you worthy of suffering for His name, because it is to your glory, because He is glorified in our patient endurance of it.
-
1
- Show all
Do you understand my question in the first place?
So when the Jews during the 4 gospels heard Jesus telling them to endure to the end, do you think they would understand it as how you are stating it, that "Enduring to the end for me means.....we are already saved once we become born again....the reason we will endure to the end is...because we have the power of the Holy Spirit in us,keeping us enduring to the end."
Do you really think that understanding would be in their minds?
So when the Jews during the 4 gospels heard Jesus telling them to endure to the end, do you think they would understand it as how you are stating it, that "Enduring to the end for me means.....we are already saved once we become born again....the reason we will endure to the end is...because we have the power of the Holy Spirit in us,keeping us enduring to the end."
Do you really think that understanding would be in their minds?
would that everyone in this thread would also abound in patience and love.
that all our faith would be expressed in this way - in gentleness, in wisdom and compassion towards one another -- that Christ would be glorified through our conversations with one another here
that all our faith would be expressed in this way - in gentleness, in wisdom and compassion towards one another -- that Christ would be glorified through our conversations with one another here
-
1
- Show all
I never studied any language either in school. But, in the Spirit, I have that roll of the tongue come naturally that sounds a bit like I would think is Spanish. There’s so many different languages and sounds that God has given, it could be anything. I don’t concern myself what it is. Plus it changes as I pray for longer periods. But, it’s pure power. Nothing like it.
All of us who are born of the Spirit of God, IMO, has this. Faith unlocks though.
All of us who are born of the Spirit of God, IMO, has this. Faith unlocks though.
E
I know, I lack OSAS contextual understanding
-
1
- Show all
And in you is fulfilled this scripture:
Matthew 13:13-15
[13] Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. [14] And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: [15] For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Carry on.
Matthew 13:13-15
[13] Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. [14] And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: [15] For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Carry on.
-
1
- Show all
Here’s how I discern that some OSAS’ers do not study too well.
If I were a OSAS’er, I would have came back with this scripture to defend myself:
2 Thessalonians 2:13-14
[13] But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: [14] Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
So I will concede that OSAS has a valid aspect to it.
But we ourselves are not in possession of who posses it, only God in heaven knows who will endure to the end.
In the meantime we should walk like this scripture says:
Philippians 3:11-14
[11] If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. [12] Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. [13] Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, [14] I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
If I were a OSAS’er, I would have came back with this scripture to defend myself:
2 Thessalonians 2:13-14
[13] But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: [14] Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
So I will concede that OSAS has a valid aspect to it.
But we ourselves are not in possession of who posses it, only God in heaven knows who will endure to the end.
In the meantime we should walk like this scripture says:
Philippians 3:11-14
[11] If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. [12] Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. [13] Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, [14] I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.