Temporal Salvation?

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NetChaplain

NetChaplain

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#1
Nov 21, 2018
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#1
The most understandable and encouraging attribute concerning salvation is that of its permanency, after all, it is called “eternal salvation” (Heb 5:9). What part of salvation is temporary, seeing that one of the meanings of redemption is that of being saved from “eternal damnation” (Mar 3:29). Is it a sensible truism that one can be eternally saved and then not eternally saved? Thus being temporarily saved from “everlasting punishment” (Mat 25:46) is clearly a concept of an oxymoron?
 
EternalFire

EternalFire

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Jan 3, 2019
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#2
Jesus is the "source of eternal salvation" to all who "obey Him" (Hebrews 5:9).

I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples. Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love. If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love (John 15:1-10).
 
NetChaplain

NetChaplain

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Nov 21, 2018
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EternalFire said:
Jesus is the "source of eternal salvation" to all who "obey Him" (Hebrews 5:9).

I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples. Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love. If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love (John 15:1-10).
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Appreciate the passages! I suspect that many see eternal life as something received in the next life, but eternal life is not something given in the next life, but something to continue on with. We miss receiving eternal life if not received in this life!
 
EternalFire

EternalFire

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After Jesus had spoken these words, he looked up to heaven and said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son so that the Son may glorify you, since you have given him authority over all people, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him. And this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent (John 17:1-3).
 
NetChaplain

NetChaplain

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I believe it comes down to the fact that there are two groups of people professing Christianity. Those who genuinely profess the faith by unceasingly manifesting it by their continued lifestyle of godliness; and those who falsely profess faith in Christianity (Jas 2:18) who cease from appearing to lives godly. Thus what the latter departs from is not faith, but from the doctrine of faith, which they never truly entered into.
 
EternalFire

EternalFire

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NetChaplain said:
I believe it comes down to the fact that there are two groups of people professing Christianity. Those who genuinely profess the faith by unceasingly manifesting it by their continued lifestyle of godliness; and those who falsely profess faith in Christianity (Jas 2:18) who cease from appearing to lives godly. Thus what the latter departs from is not faith, but from the doctrine of faith, which they never truly entered into.
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Stand and continue! Romans 11:17-24:

If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!
 
tourist

tourist

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#7
Mar 13, 2014
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The bible has stated that Jesus has not lost a single one that the Father has entrusted into His care. Based on my understanding of scripture regarding salvation I fully agree with you that it is indeed permanent.
 
M

Micaiah-imla

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#8
Feb 29, 2020
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There’s a portion of scripture that mentions unbelievers. Then proceeds to caution the believers against becoming high minded in their faith, loosing the fear of God, and ending up being cut off with the unbelievers because of not continuing in the goodness of God.

It’s Romans 11:20-23.

There are other scriptures that speak of this as well.

Search the scriptures my friends, search.

And when you find, do not let those words be takin away from you by the wisdom of men.

Watch and pray.
 
NetChaplain

NetChaplain

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Nov 21, 2018
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tourist said:
The bible has stated that Jesus has not lost a single one that the Father has entrusted into His care. Based on my understanding of scripture regarding salvation I fully agree with you that it is indeed permanent.
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Amen, and thanks for your input!

I believe God wants believers to know that they are saved, otherwise there is no encouragement in wondering. We can't have this certainty about others (would require knowing them as God knows them), but each can be certain concerning themselves (Rom 8:16); and Christ did say He never losses anyone He saves.

John 18:9 "of them which thou gavest Me have I lost none"; which though it has a peculiar respect to the apostles, is true of all the elect of God; who are given to Christ, and shall none of them be lost, neither their souls nor bodies; for Christ's charge of them reaches to both: both were given to Him" (J Gill).
 
NetChaplain

NetChaplain

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#10
Nov 21, 2018
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#10
Micaiah-imla said:
There’s a portion of scripture that mentions unbelievers. Then proceeds to caution the believers against becoming high minded in their faith, loosing the fear of God, and ending up being cut off with the unbelievers because of not continuing in the goodness of God.

It’s Romans 11:20-23.

There are other scriptures that speak of this as well.

Search the scriptures my friends, search.

And when you find, do not let those words be takin away from you by the wisdom of men.

Watch and pray.
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HI, and thanks for the comments! When Paul wrote "lest he also spare not thee," I believe it was a means of identifying one's self. That if pride (high-minded) rules you it's a warning that you could be a hypocrite. But this is for us to know because God already knows. For those in Christ, God "works" in the believer to prevent desire for sin (Phl 2:13).
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

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#11
Apr 7, 2014
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NetChaplain said:
Appreciate the passages! I suspect that many see eternal life as something received in the next life, but eternal life is not something given in the next life, but something to continue on with. We miss receiving eternal life if not received in this life!
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John 5:24 - Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

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NetChaplain said:
I believe it comes down to the fact that there are two groups of people professing Christianity. Those who genuinely profess the faith by unceasingly manifesting it by their continued lifestyle of godliness; and those who falsely profess faith in Christianity (Jas 2:18) who cease from appearing to lives godly. Thus what the latter departs from is not faith, but from the doctrine of faith, which they never truly entered into.
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Amen! There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers.
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

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Dec 28, 2016
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NetChaplain said:
I believe it comes down to the fact that there are two groups of people professing Christianity. Those who genuinely profess the faith by unceasingly manifesting it by their continued lifestyle of godliness; and those who falsely profess faith in Christianity (Jas 2:18) who cease from appearing to lives godly. Thus what the latter departs from is not faith, but from the doctrine of faith, which they never truly entered into.
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Yes, that is what it means when it says they depart from "the faith," it is literally to go away from the system of doctrine which we were given but once, and for which we are to contend. Note 1 Timothy 4:1; 1 Timothy 6:21; Jude 1:3.

Impostors grow worse and worse; 2 Timothy 3:12-13 while true converts become more godly and sanctified by Christ; Hebrews 12:14, thus you've touched on the necessity of self-examination and evidence of conversion.

Thanks for bringing this up.
 
NetChaplain

NetChaplain

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Nov 21, 2018
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mailmandan said:
Amen! There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers.
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Amen, and I believe this is a good example:

Jhn 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit,.... There are two sorts of branches in Christ the vine; the one sort are such who have only an historical faith in him, believe but for a time, and are removed; they are such who only profess to believe in him, as Simon Magus did (Act 8:9-24); are in him by profession only; they submit to outward ordinances, become church members, and so are reckoned to be in Christ, being in a church state, as the churches of Judea and Thessalonica, and others, are said, in general, to he in Christ; though it is not to be thought that every individual person in these churches were truly and savingly in him. These branches are unfruitful ones; what fruit they seemed to have, withers away, and proves not to be genuine fruit; what fruit they bring forth is to themselves, and not to the glory of God, being none of the fruits of his Spirit and grace" (John Gill).
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

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Apr 7, 2014
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#15
NetChaplain said:
Amen, and I believe this is a good example:

Jhn 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit,.... There are two sorts of branches in Christ the vine; the one sort are such who have only an historical faith in him, believe but for a time, and are removed; they are such who only profess to believe in him, as Simon Magus did (Act 8:9-24); are in him by profession only; they submit to outward ordinances, become church members, and so are reckoned to be in Christ, being in a church state, as the churches of Judea and Thessalonica, and others, are said, in general, to he in Christ; though it is not to be thought that every individual person in these churches were truly and savingly in him. These branches are unfruitful ones; what fruit they seemed to have, withers away, and proves not to be genuine fruit; what fruit they bring forth is to themselves, and not to the glory of God, being none of the fruits of his Spirit and grace" (John Gill).
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Amen! Greek scholar AT Robertson summed it up nicely. (y) - ..Two kinds of connections with Christ as the vine (the merely cosmic which bears no fruit, the spiritual and vital which bears fruit). The fruitless (not bearing fruit, mh peron karpon) the vine-dresser "takes away" (airei) or prunes away. Probably (Bernard) Jesus here refers to Judas..

https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/robertsons-word-pictures/john/john-15.html
 
E

EleventhHour

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#16
mailmandan said:
Amen! Greek scholar AT Robertson summed it up nicely. (y) - ..Two kinds of connections with Christ as the vine (the merely cosmic which bears no fruit, the spiritual and vital which bears fruit). The fruitless (not bearing fruit, mh peron karpon) the vine-dresser "takes away" (airei) or prunes away. Probably (Bernard) Jesus here refers to Judas..

https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/robertsons-word-pictures/john/john-15.html
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"Airei" in context in better rendered "lifted up." This passage is often misunderstood and is not a judgmental passage.

Having worked on a farm unfruitful branches are lifted up so they receive better sunlight and are not dragging on the ground, they are lifted up so they are allowed to heal.

They are tied along the trellises and allowed to grow and the longer they became was good so there would be more fruit the next year.

"Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he lifteth up," that is, to keep it from trailing on the ground.

God cares for those not yet ready to bear fruit that is the message.

There are many other places where this word is translated as "lifted up"
 
G

Graceguy

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#17
Sep 15, 2019
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#17
NetChaplain said:
I believe it comes down to the fact that there are two groups of people professing Christianity. Those who genuinely profess the faith by unceasingly manifesting it by their continued lifestyle of godliness; and those who falsely profess faith in Christianity (Jas 2:18) who cease from appearing to lives godly. Thus what the latter departs from is not faith, but from the doctrine of faith, which they never truly entered into.
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Dear NetChaplain : WOW! What an interesting web of words you have chosen to clarify what is, or isn’t , eternal salvation/security. Initially, it seemed simple; and (probably) because of that , I thought I understood. As the thread continued though, your choice of qualifiers, “increasingly manifesting their continual lifestyle of Godliness”, and later, “cease from appearing to live lives godly”, seemed contradictory. I’m not sure based on these examples , whether you believe in eternal security or not . Thoughts?
 
NetChaplain

NetChaplain

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#18
Nov 21, 2018
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#18
Graceguy said:
Dear NetChaplain : WOW! What an interesting web of words you have chosen to clarify what is, or isn’t , eternal salvation/security. Initially, it seemed simple; and (probably) because of that , I thought I understood. As the thread continued though, your choice of qualifiers, “increasingly manifesting their continual lifestyle of Godliness”, and later, “cease from appearing to live lives godly”, seemed contradictory. I’m not sure based on these examples , whether you believe in eternal security or not . Thoughts?
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Hi and appreciate your reply! I do believe in eternal assurance, otherwise one is merely just wondering about it and not having anything to grow on.
 
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