Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot

I am not offended, and no you were not harsh to me.

I am indifferent to the post because quite frankly I am not the one you should be apologizing to... I just made a simple point that the original post was about the dogma and was not personal to any particular person.
Movin on...

Here’s some straight truth: calvinism is heresy.

Regardless of all that, Calvin HONESTLY interpreted Isaiah 45:22. He had no choice but to do that. He also honestly interpreted John 1:29. Again, he had no choice but to say exactly what it said:

JOHN CALVIN ON JOHN 1:29: ALL MEN NEED TO BE RECONCILED TO GOD
Who taketh away the sin of the world. He uses the word sin in the singular number, for any kind of iniquity; as if he had said, that every kind of unrighteousness which alienates men from God is taken away by Christ. And when he says, the sin Of The World, he extends this favor indiscriminately to the whole human race; that the Jews might not think that he had been sent to them alone. But hence we infer that the whole world is involved in the same condemnation; and that as all men without exception are guilty of unrighteousness before God, they need to be reconciled to him. John the Baptist, therefore, by speaking generally of the sin of the world, intended to impress upon us the conviction of our own misery, and to exhort us to seek the remedy. Now our duty is, to embrace the benefit which is offered to all, that each of us may be convinced that there is nothing to hinder him from obtaining reconciliation in Christ, provided that he comes to him by the guidance of faith.

If he then failed to incorporate this truth into his false gospel, that is another matter. But we are focused on the actual interpretation of a verse which THOROUGHLY REFUTES "Unconditional Election" (election for salvation).

When a Christian is confronted with the Word of God, he or she has two options: (1) believe it for what it actually says or (2) twist it to fit your false theology or gospel. And there is no question that Calvinists twisted the truth when they created TULIP.

Praise God brother, that's what He has put on my heart so hard, the proclamation of His word to the lost. It's His word that saves, and He transforms us to proclaim this to the lost so that EVERYTHING goes under Him. I am not a "Calvinist", I do not call myself a "Pentecostal" either, although this is the "type" of church God put me in.

I do understand the purpose and reason for these labels and do think they are necessary, but absolutely loath them when they are used with broad strokes to paint everyone THEY put under that label, and they use it to attack the individual person relentlessly by assuming that by that label alone you know everything that person believes. Then they proceed to throw straw man after straw man at the person before even one question is asked, never even knowing if that person believes the things they are arguing against. In my experience it's always due to lack of communication and understanding. The very things we are commanded to be known for. I of course say this having learned it by doing these thing the wrong way and trying to learn from it.
(his Spirit teaching me it. ALL glory to Him) Also not being scared to admit when I'm wrong and openly try to change it even when it's embarrassing, and/or being called a hypocrite while doing so, by my own brothers. But it's not them I desire to please.

This leads to the other HUGE problem these us/them labels lead to, and that is this false "either/or" division that some people COME to the table with. They just lay it down that if you don't believe exactly what "I" say is truth then you're and unsaved heretic, period and I got nothing for ya.

I hate to call it out because I actually really like the guy and think we'd get along in real life, and have gotten along here, but I don't think this will be one of those times now. The thing is as long as one agrees with him he is awesome, but he will turn on you at the drop of a hat, relabel you first, condemn you in every way, and even resort to name calling refusing to listen to the others point of view at all ever, DC is who I'm talking about, and the only reason I'm even naming him is because he was doing this same thing in this thread.



Coming strait out with condemning EVERYONE that he feels falls under Calvinism, and I know some pretty "on fire" Calvinist not only proclaiming His word in power, but also DOING IT, living it in word and deed, yet you just seem to wave them off as false, never try to understand how they see it, just because we see things from different angles doesn't make one any less truth by default, to be fair it very well could, but often time in my experience, it's just two roads to the same truth. Your words seem filled with strait up divisive anger, not love. You don't get to just sweepingly declare all these things "are not of God" without ever even getting specific, without ever actually talking one on one to see what THEY say, and then you form your arguments from that. No your tactic seems to be to just condemn and cut off, assuring that God doesn't use you to point them closer to truth (you know our main command from Jesus) and I am sure you think this impossible, but you also insure that He doesn't use them to, and I know it's impossible but I have to add it because it's true for every other human being on the planet, that they might teach you something.

DC I know this is more than likely going to anger you, and know that I'm not a bit sorry for posting it, but please try to understand WHY I am doing this? Am I just trying to insult you, or maybe just hold a grudge from a previous conversation? No I am doing this in love to point out a glaring character flaw in you. You comments make me cringe sometimes. I just see the way you speak to others sometime, here too, amoungst others that say they follow Jesus and I am just left speechless sometimes. I just don't understand why you act so consistently hostel in this way to brothers, BEFORE ever spending 1 second getting to know them or understand them at all. I love the strait forward, no nonsense, firm in my belief kind of guy. All fine qualities I see in you, but you don't seem to know when to turn that off and be a bit more gentle, and understand, not a man purse carrying beta, but man do you think Jesus spoke like this to people, and not in hostel situations, but conversations with people believing and seeking?

You say Calvinism is "divisive, it breeds elitism, it denies many biblical truths, it skews truth and it loves to divide and conquer", and then go on to feed right into it's trap. Wow. Do you not think your comment here reeks of divisiveness and elitism? And I started with this, but feel it's a good time to inject it again, I know I've fallen short in these same ways, but before you start pointing back at me to deflect the problem I'm calling you out for, I know, and I admit and confess it, even apologize when I'm wrong. I don't read every comment, and could be dead wrong about this, but I've been around here years and can't recall a time that I've seen you ever show any of these things, again I could be wrong, but the overall "vibe" I have ever seen come from you specifically is friendly when you agree with him, and hostel as all hell when you don't. Just what I see man, and if others saw or see that in me I'd want to be called out too.

Praise Jesus for EVERYTHING He provides, and may His Spirit bring peace and unity to the His people here on CC to come together and be a brighter light than ever before. Amen.

There was not one single personal comment in @dcontroversal post, it was about the dogma, and you made it completely about him.

So tell me who is being divisive? If dogma is wrong, and presents a different "god" "a wrong plan of salvation" ... it is wrong.

And there have been far more personal posts on here by others.... interesting THE one you replied to and made personal ...rather telling.

Okay I was calling out a specific behavior that went right along with everything I was saying, and was honestly calling out the behavior because I felt lead to. Fair enough you feel like jumping in to put in your 2 cent, but you're trying to police me and tell me what I can post. I was pointing out a specific behavior I've witnessed the past 5 years I felt needed calling out. There is a HUGE difference here, and while you're more than welcome you add your opinion, you don't get to tell me how to comment.

The way I called out DC was with a history dealing with this issue, was in love for a real life character flaw that makes our King look bad, and was done in the most heart felt and sincere way I could possible muster. Why are you here shaming me with your petty tribal nonsense?

Christ or calvin?
Christ or calvin?
Decisions, decisions.
Christ or calvin? 🤔🤔🤔

Yea getting to to root and asking for answers, what a horrible approach. I'm not a "Calvinist" BTW, so stop labeling me that please, but that is what I love, truth, strait answers, no fear when seeking the truth of any and every thing. To me sounds pretty good, and smart really, but seeing as you have me labeled completely wrong anyway, I guess you comment doesn't apply to me at all. Right?

I know right? It's only by His power that I can even see that to stop. Especially me because I have SO MUCH I want to say. The thing is I only want that for His glory, and getting into a back and forth like I was just was does not glorify Him at all.

I am also grateful for the voice of reason from you. Thanks oldethennew, I'm glad you're here.

So man has all the power? Not what my bible says. Can you not see the selfishness in this view? "I choose", it's "MAN'S choice", and I honestly 100% agree with that, for most anyway this seems to be how it works. I do believe we have a choice, and you're right His word clearly relays this no question, but when I looked at the two list right above, the list of "predestination" verses, and the 1 (posted, I know there are much more) verse posted for "our choice", it is looks like it's more than leaning towards us being called, and chosen. Chosen to be His voice calling the others. See it's by His will and grace we are saved, not OUR CHOICE. That is the difference in this debate, it's not if we make a choice, it's who gets ALL the credit and glory for that choice? I say God gets it all, in my case He has to because when He saved me my only decision was "I can't do this anymore (life), and I quit." I didn't call God, I didn't call on Jesus, at this time if I had ever believed in God, I DID NOT when I hit my knees. I just knew my way sucked and quit it. I did not DECIDE a thing and there is no way my testimony fits what you're saying and how it works.

So God did save me, I didn't do anything but break.

You seem to take the credit for your decision, and <--- This is the only point of contention in my opinion. Right here. Who gets the credit and glory for this "choice" He brings us to? I say God gets it all, I was dead when He picked me up. Who do you say gets it?

Deep parrot.

I don't owe anyone an apology for stating the truth in love the way I did, and stand behind every word I said. I will not be intimidated by the mob here anymore that the BLM and leftest mob. I find it suspicious so many are jumping on me over something I called out someone else for. Someone who NEEDS it because they act a fool on here. I was only offering it to you because you jumped into it like you were offended, so I was just offering the baby a pacifier to be honest, but I know you can't appease the irrational with what they want. My mistake. You've slapped my peace offerings away enough now. I have your number and everyone can clearly read it here. Sorry you couldn't get to me, and I hope you have a nice day.

Man has no power to save, but man has the ability to trust in the one that saves. There’s no selfishness at all, actually the opposite. When I see how sinful I am and I need a savior.

Good post. You're another that has taken on the poor behavior and called it out and have endured the feeble attempt of backlash by some. Much appreciated from here. Would be nice to have good biblical dialog but when the responses are what they have been...well...

Man has no power to save, but man has the ability to trust in the one that saves. There’s no selfishness at all, actually the opposite. When I see how sinful I am and I need a savior.

No, not even close to the truth.

Man is unable and does not possess "ability", John 6:44, John 6:63, salvation is 100% God and 0% mans ability.

No, not even close to the truth.

Man is unable and does not possess "ability", John 6:44, John 6:63, salvation is 100% God and 0% mans ability.

Was eternal fire prepared for man? Why or why not? Is it appointed unto man to die once? The lake of fire is the second death. Is it appointed for man to end up in the lake of fire?