The Book of Enoch and other books not included in KJV

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MyrtleTrees

Junior Member
Sep 5, 2014
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#21
When do you think language was created? Do you think God taught men to speak, read and write? Even in the 1800s many were illiterate. That’s several of thousands of years after the invention of writing. There weren’t even many symbols to make such expressive language as found in the book of Enoch. One would have to almost imagine what he was trying to express. My thoughts are if Enoch wrote a book, first what did he write it on? Second, did Noah take it on the ark to preserve it? Third, who could even translate it? In my opinion it’s a work of fiction. Perhaps if there was a scroll or story it wasn’t the same one told today.
That's an interesting thought! Yes, ways of writing had to be different - that early in history! I've read about cuneiform - here's an online definition of that:
denoting or relating to the wedge-shaped characters used in the ancient writing systems of Mesopotamia, Persia, and Ugarit, surviving mainly impressed on clay tablets.
"a cuneiform inscription"
And think of Moses, for whom the Commandments were written by God on stone tablets! Somewhat similar idea as cuneiform method, it sounds like.
And think of papyrus. Here's an online explanation about that: Papyrus was first manufactured in Egypt as far back as the fourth millennium BCE
I couldn't find anything online about there being any known dates for the start of prehistoric paintings done on walls of caves. Only guesses.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,465
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#22
This may help to understand the question o reading and writing. History is defined as what has been recorded in writing since the device first came into being.

That is to say, there is no recorded history before writing came into play...…...think on that a bit and think about just how little mankind has recorded...….
 

Just_Jo

Well-known member
May 29, 2020
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#23
If you are really interested in how the books made it into the scriptures, I recommend F F Bruce's book, "The Cannon of Scripture". It's available in most bookstores.


Thanks,I downloaded a sample until mine comes.
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
9,883
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#24
I'm just curious and I believe God could bring His love and mercy to us even without the Bible .
All things are possible with God; however, what is important to remember is that how He chooses to do something is of paramount significance.
 

MyrtleTrees

Junior Member
Sep 5, 2014
805
322
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#25
All things are possible with God; however, what is important to remember is that how He chooses to do something is of paramount significance.
Yes, it is possible to come to know God and have a relationship with Him, without having first having had the advantage of having had access to the Bible. But it is rare. Here are some examples I can think of in which ones made the choice to serve God, in spite of not having had access to God's Word:
*Jethro, Moses' father-in-law. He was drawn to seek God, through knowing Moses, and examining what great accomplishments God had done through him.
*The apostle Paul.
*Nebuchadnezzar, who ate grass like a beast, until he came to realize there was a true God, and who made the choice then - to serve Him.
*The Nebuchadnezzar, who threw Shadrach, Meschech, and Abednego into the fire - came to recognize God as being the one and true God, because he saw how miraculously these 3 men had survived the fire.
*I don't think (I'm guessing) Noah used the scriptures when he preached to the people. The same in the story of Jonah - he just told the Ninevites they needed to repent.
*Many chose to serve God, after viewing the miracle of Lazarus being raised up from the dead.
*All people are able to detect the existence of God, through observing God's creation. Romans 1:20
*Samuel Morris, of some place in Africa, originally knew nothing or very little about God. But he sought God and wanted to know Him. He eventually came to know him - have a relationship with God.
*Some claim that many people in Iraq or Iraq (I forgot just where) have come to God through visions God has been sending to many of them. Maybe this is true!

But here's some verses that show that people are more likely to come to God, through the preaching of the gospel:
Rom 10:13-15

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
KJV

Also, after the outpouring of God's Spirit on the day of Pentecost, about 30 days after Jesus ascended back to heaven - made it so God's Spirit was more available in the world, to help convert people, and to also more closely guide sincere Christians who serve God with their lives. In other words, God's people are led by God's Spirit in their daily lives.

Rom 8:14

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
KJV

And here's a passage that shows how the outpouring of God's Spirit in the world, helps make it more possible for unbelievers to get saved:

Acts 17:29-31

29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
KJV
Comment: God largely winked at (largely overlooked - didn't bother trying to intervene) the spiritual ignorance of people (except for the nation of Israel) in Old Testament times, due to the the fact that there wasn't the help from the Holy Spirit available to unbelievers back then, to the extent that it is now - ever since the outpouring of God's Spirit, in the early book of Acts. Now that the outpouring of the Spirit occurred, this puts places greater responsibility upon both unbelievers and believers to respond to the need to give into and accept the lordship of Christ. So that those who refuse to comply will be punished more intensely in hell, due to their knowing what's right and yet refusing it.
UNBELIEVER'S RESPONSIBILITY:
Matt 11:21-24

21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.

23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.
KJV
BELIEVER'S RESPONSIBILITY;
See Hebrews, chapter 12.
 

Prycejosh1987

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2020
1,016
189
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#26
Why do you suppose King James left it out of the Bible he compiled?
Some people say the people that decided the books in the bible, left out the book of Enoch because it contained heresy. It wasnt even written by Enoch. Somebody who wanted fame wrote the book, to gain some popularity. Well that is what some people say. Well one is Allen Parr jr, the beat. Youtube. Check it out.
 

MyrtleTrees

Junior Member
Sep 5, 2014
805
322
63
#29
Some people say the people that decided the books in the bible, left out the book of Enoch because it contained heresy. It wasnt even written by Enoch. Somebody who wanted fame wrote the book, to gain some popularity. Well that is what some people say. Well one is Allen Parr jr, the beat. Youtube. Check it out.
Thanks for the Youtube link! I listened to him, just now - explaining why the so-called book, "The Book of Enoch" - is not to be trusted with the same level as the Bible - and how it also contains some heresies! He sounds like an interesting discusser of spiritual things - I'll have to try him out some more!!
 

soggykitten

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2020
2,322
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#30
Hello,

i would like to start with a discussion on the book of Enoch,which I've just read.

Why do you suppose King James left it out of the Bible he compiled?

Does it have any spiritual value to the believers walk?

King James was protestant,he gave account in the book of Genesis ( written by Moses?) ,where it speaks of Enochs Adamic genology and his translation to be with God! Gen 5:23/24



I read one opion on this book that declares if we read it ,it will lead us into mysticism,socercy divinations and the new age movement.



Just curious to your thoughts.
As I remember the 1611 printing of the KJV included the Apocrypha. Perhaps that was also the inclusion of the Book of Enoch.
I have no problem with the Apocrypha nor Enoch's book. Enoch was referred to by Jesus so he knew of the ancient writings that the Hebrews were taught from when he used that reference. Many of his parables were reminiscent of the old testament parables and for that reason. To show his people the fulfillment of the prophecies and further the message in those parables of old being he was the new hope, and their Messiah.
I don't get how there can be two schools of thought concerning God's inspired word. God inspires his message to the world.
Then men decide what we're to hear of it? Or what qualifies as something God would say in their view?
Odd. Sounds more like politics to me.
 

soggykitten

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2020
2,322
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#31
The prior question about how the canon arrived is here. A short video by Museum of the Bible, located in Washington D.C.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#32
If you are really interested in how the books made it into the scriptures, I recommend F F Bruce's book, "The Cannon of Scripture". It's available in most bookstores.
Award winning book, I have a Kindle copy. I have read it once and plan to read it again and again.