Eternal Security - Most dangerous words ever preached: Once saved, always saved.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
MessageOfTheCross

MessageOfTheCross

Senior Member
#141
Sep 3, 2016
6,344
530
113
#141
Scribe said:
Take up your cross daily in this context means to be ready to die under persecution for the sake of your faith in Jesus Christ. It does not mean take up a particular doctrine or teaching daily. The context is clear and simple.
Click to expand...
The person who takes up his cross is humble. A true worshipper. Take up your cross simply means to receive my benefits I have given you daily from Calvary (Psalm 103:2). Take

If it is not done by Grace through Faith (in Christ and Him Crucified) it is law. No other way can you please and live for God that allows the Holy Spirit to work in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. (Rom. 8:2 KJV, Phil. 2:13 KJV, Gal. 2:18, 21 KJV, Gal. 5:4 KJV, 1 Cor. 1:17-31 KJV)

James 4:10 says - Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

A humble Believer trust and Faith is placed and maintained exclusively in Christ and His Finished Work at Calvary Cross where the victory was won. This Believer is denying themselves by taking up their cross daily.

Luke 9:23 - And He said to them all, If any man will come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me.

Denial of self is recognizing my moral and spiritual poverty; for I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) dwells no good thing (Romans 7:18). It is knowing and understanding that I am unable to serve God in my own will power, self-will, strength, ability, and power. We see this in the first three "Beatitudes."

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:3

Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. Matthew 5:4

Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. Matthew 5:5

Take up his cross is seen in Matthew 5:6; Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

I am filled by God's provisions (GRACE) found in Christ by placing my Faith exclusively in Christ and Him Crucified (Believing who Jesus is, and what Jesus has done). Therefore I receive all the benefits of this "Resurrection Life" by understanding that we have been planted together [Christ and ourselves] in the likeness of His Death [Romans 6:5, Psalm 103:2].
 
M

MattforJesus

Banned
#142
Apr 15, 2017
2,867
653
113
#142
MessageOfTheCross said:
Is it possible for a Christian to lose his salvation? Under what conditions, if any, can one's salvation be forfeited? Millions of Christians live their lives as close to these questions as they can, gambling on the goodness and mercy of God to save them, continually, in their sin rather than from it. Millions more spend their faith on works attempting to offer a better sacrifice, but in reality bypass the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...
1Co 10:5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
1Co 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

2Co 6:3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed.

Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked.

OSAS produced a lot of hypocrites that think they cannot fall because of their lifestyle, so many live in sin and believe they have salvation.

They say they cannot abstain from sin, sin daily, but the Bible says a Spirit led life will not sin.

Believe they can never fall, but the Bible says if they do not continue in the goodness of God they will be cut off.

Think that faith will save them, but love is greater than faith, and faith works by love, and love does not think an evil thought.

But many are relaxed in their lifestyle and holding unto sin because they think they cannot fall.

And then the world says hypocrites and many do not embrace Christianity.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#143
Jul 31, 2013
37,849
13,562
113
#143
Truth7t7 said:
You claimed politics are wicked, God has established Government, your the foolish man.
Click to expand...
it's not my opinion that God's sovereign establishing of kings and kingdoms makes worldly human politicking righteous.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#144
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#144
MattforJesus said:
1Co 10:5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
1Co 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

2Co 6:3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed.

Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked.

OSAS produced a lot of hypocrites that think they cannot fall because of their lifestyle, so many live in sin and believe they have salvation.

They say they cannot abstain from sin, sin daily, but the Bible says a Spirit led life will not sin.

Believe they can never fall, but the Bible says if they do not continue in the goodness of God they will be cut off.

Think that faith will save them, but love is greater than faith, and faith works by love, and love does not think an evil thought.

But many are relaxed in their lifestyle and holding unto sin because they think they cannot fall.

And then the world says hypocrites and many do not embrace Christianity.
Click to expand...
Why do you think those that hold to Eternal security sin more. its my experience that those who hold to Conditional salvation are struggling the most with sin and behaviour?
 
MessageOfTheCross

MessageOfTheCross

Senior Member
#145
Sep 3, 2016
6,344
530
113
#145
throughfaith said:
How was he sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption , before Acts 2 ?
john 7 .39
(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was NOT YET GIVEN ; because that Jesus was NOT YET GLORIFIED .)???
Click to expand...
The same way the Believers in Paradise was, and the thief on the Cross who was waiting for Christ to die on the cross.
 
Chris1975

Chris1975

Senior Member
#146
Apr 27, 2017
2,492
517
113
#146
Micaiah-imla said:
Sir,

“You shall never die” sounds a lot like “you are always saved”.

Too bad you cannot see the similarity.
Click to expand...
Precisely. The doctine of OSAS came from the serpent in the garden. "Thou shalt surely not die" --- by implication that you can continue to disobey God without consequence.
 
T

Truth7t7

Well-known member
#147
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
113
#147
posthuman said:
it's not my opinion that God's sovereign establishing of kings and kingdoms makes worldly human politicking righteous.
Click to expand...
Your response is out in left field, you have been clearly shown that man is subject to the governing authorities.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#149
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,777
113
#149
MessageOfTheCross said:
The question I ask you, was Judas a apostle? Yes or no?
Click to expand...
Yes. An UNSAVED apostle.

Today there are many nominal Christians -- in name only. But they are not necessarily regenerated Christians. And if one is not saved to begin with (as was Judas) one cannot lose his salvation.
 
Chris1975

Chris1975

Senior Member
#150
Apr 27, 2017
2,492
517
113
#150
MessageOfTheCross said:
And being peached by his children today.
Click to expand...
And OSAS is the Strong Delusion (Apostasy) of 2 Thess 2. That's why they simply cannot see any longer, because the delusion is strong, and is sent by God, because they have not the love of the truth.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#151
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,777
113
#151
Chris1975 said:
Precisely. The doctine of OSAS came from the serpent in the garden. "Thou shalt surely not die" --- by implication that you can continue to disobey God without consequence.
Click to expand...
The Gospel does not teach any such nonsense, and no preacher of the Gospel will preach such rubbish. You are attributing to Satan what belongs to God. Which means that you do not know, or do not understand, the Gospel.

TITUS 2: SALVATION LEADS T0 RIGHTEOUSNESS AND GOOD WORKS
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
 
Chris1975

Chris1975

Senior Member
#152
Apr 27, 2017
2,492
517
113
#152
throughfaith said:
you keep quoting the old testament?
And you haven't dealt with the verse . Sealed !!!!! by the Holy !! Spirit !! Until !! the day !!!!!!!! of !!! redemption. There's literally no way round this verse .
Click to expand...
Let us deal with this verse. Unregenerated man comprised of Soul and Flesh. Born again man the Spirit comes alive (the holy of holies in the temple of the body). We are to be led by the Spirit. Those led by the Spirit are the sons of God. We are to by the Spirit put to death the misdeeds of the body in order to live. We are not to QUENCH the Spirit. Nor are you to INSULT the Spirit of Grace. You are sealed with the Spirit UNTIL the day of redemption. Look at it again. UNTIL.

On this Day of Redemption the decision is made concerning your SALVATION. At the end of the process. Those who WALKED WITH GOD (like Enoch, Noah, Abraham, David, Peter, John, Paul etc) inherit eternal life. Thats our INHERITANCE. These are the SHEEP. Those who did not walk with God (but yet considered themselves of the same fold) are called GOATS. Theirs is everlasting fire.
 
Chris1975

Chris1975

Senior Member
#153
Apr 27, 2017
2,492
517
113
#153
Nehemiah6 said:
The Gospel does not teach any such nonsense, and no preacher of the Gospel will preach such rubbish. You are attributing to Satan what belongs to God. Which means that you do not know, or do not understand, the Gospel.

TITUS 2: SALVATION LEADS T0 RIGHTEOUSNESS AND GOOD WORKS
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Click to expand...
Nehemiah, if you couldnt understand this, then.......you just cannot see it.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#154
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#154
MessageOfTheCross said:
The same way the Believers in Paradise was, and the thief on the Cross who was waiting for Christ to die on the cross.
Click to expand...
Like Noah ? you think Noah was saved by believing on the Death , burial and resurrection? And the coming of the Holy Spirit? Then Noah was baptised into the body of Christ, sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption ? really ? Can anyone be saved today on what Abraham , issac, Jacob , Noah , moses ect believed ? try preaching that today . No death of Christ , no burial and no resurrection ( it hadnt happened then ) no Romans 10 .9 ?
 
Chris1975

Chris1975

Senior Member
#155
Apr 27, 2017
2,492
517
113
#155
Its good to see more and more people standing up for the true gospel on these pages. At one stage it was very lopsided towards the apostate doctrine of OSAS.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#156
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#156
Chris1975 said:
Let us deal with this verse. Unregenerated man comprised of Soul and Flesh. Born again man the Spirit comes alive (the holy of holies in the temple of the body). We are to be led by the Spirit. Those led by the Spirit are the sons of God. We are to by the Spirit put to death the misdeeds of the body in order to live. We are not to QUENCH the Spirit. Nor are you to INSULT the Spirit of Grace. You are sealed with the Spirit UNTIL the day of redemption. Look at it again. UNTIL.

On this Day of Redemption the decision is made concerning your SALVATION. At the end of the process. Those who WALKED WITH GOD (like Enoch, Noah, Abraham, David, Peter, John, Paul etc) inherit eternal life. Thats our INHERITANCE. These are the SHEEP. Those who did not walk with God (but yet considered themselves of the same fold) are called GOATS. Theirs is everlasting fire.
Click to expand...
Could you look at this verse please :
Rom 8.23 23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the REDEMPTION of our body.( Glorification)
And this one again .
Eph 4.30b Sealed by the Holy Spirit Until the day of REDEMPTION. ( glorification)
How can anyone be lost who is actually Glorified.
then this one :
13¶In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
 
MessageOfTheCross

MessageOfTheCross

Senior Member
#157
Sep 3, 2016
6,344
530
113
#157
Chris1975 said:
That's why they simply cannot see any longer,
Click to expand...
There triple moral ability to see, hear, and understand, every Word that God has ever spoken in Truth and Righteousness has been blocked by the Holy Spirit.

Jesus Explains the Purpose of Speaking in Parables

Matthew 13:10-14

10 And the Disciples came, and said unto Him (seems to pertain to a later time when they were alone), Why do you speak to them in Parables? (This portrays consternation on their part!)

11 He answered and said unto them (concerns the Lord's method of dealing with two different classes of people, those who really wanted to know God's way and those who were merely curious), Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven, but to them it is not given (two categories are here presented; in which category are you?).

12 For whosoever has (and wants more), to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance (if one wills Righteousness, the Lord wills more Righteousness to them): but whosoever has not (no interest for more), from him shall be taken away even that he has (he not only loses what he could have had, but even that which he has; to those who accept the Cross, they will have even more, and to those who reject the Cross, they will lose everything, even that which they previously had).

13 Therefore speak I to them in Parables (in order to separate those who hunger and thirst for Righteousness from those who don't): because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand (that is, they do not wish to see or hear or understand; and hence by a just judgment they lose this triple moral ability).

14 And in them (those who reject the Cross [1 Cor. 1:23]) is fulfilled the Prophecy of Isaiah, which says, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive (a willing deafness, a willful blindness, and a willful dullness; this Passage is quoted in one form or the other some seven times in the New Testament [Mat. 13:14-15; Mk. 4:12; LK. 8:10; Jn. 12:39-40; Acts 28:26-27; Rom. 11:8]):

JSM
 
Chris1975

Chris1975

Senior Member
#158
Apr 27, 2017
2,492
517
113
#158
MessageOfTheCross said:
There triple moral ability to see, hear, and understand, every Word that God has ever spoken in Truth and Righteousness has been blocked by the Holy Spirit.

Jesus Explains the Purpose of Speaking in Parables

Matthew 13:10-14

10 And the Disciples came, and said unto Him (seems to pertain to a later time when they were alone), Why do you speak to them in Parables? (This portrays consternation on their part!)

11 He answered and said unto them (concerns the Lord's method of dealing with two different classes of people, those who really wanted to know God's way and those who were merely curious), Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven, but to them it is not given (two categories are here presented; in which category are you?).

12 For whosoever has (and wants more), to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance (if one wills Righteousness, the Lord wills more Righteousness to them): but whosoever has not (no interest for more), from him shall be taken away even that he has (he not only loses what he could have had, but even that which he has; to those who accept the Cross, they will have even more, and to those who reject the Cross, they will lose everything, even that which they previously had).

13 Therefore speak I to them in Parables (in order to separate those who hunger and thirst for Righteousness from those who don't): because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand (that is, they do not wish to see or hear or understand; and hence by a just judgment they lose this triple moral ability).

14 And in them (those who reject the Cross [1 Cor. 1:23]) is fulfilled the Prophecy of Isaiah, which says, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive (a willing deafness, a willful blindness, and a willful dullness; this Passage is quoted in one form or the other some seven times in the New Testament [Mat. 13:14-15; Mk. 4:12; LK. 8:10; Jn. 12:39-40; Acts 28:26-27; Rom. 11:8]):

JSM
Click to expand...
well said
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#159
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#159
Chris1975 said:
Let us deal with this verse. Unregenerated man comprised of Soul and Flesh. Born again man the Spirit comes alive (the holy of holies in the temple of the body). We are to be led by the Spirit. Those led by the Spirit are the sons of God. We are to by the Spirit put to death the misdeeds of the body in order to live. We are not to QUENCH the Spirit. Nor are you to INSULT the Spirit of Grace. You are sealed with the Spirit UNTIL the day of redemption. Look at it again. UNTIL.

On this Day of Redemption the decision is made concerning your SALVATION. At the end of the process. Those who WALKED WITH GOD (like Enoch, Noah, Abraham, David, Peter, John, Paul etc) inherit eternal life. Thats our INHERITANCE. These are the SHEEP. Those who did not walk with God (but yet considered themselves of the same fold) are called GOATS. Theirs is everlasting fire.
Click to expand...
Chris1975 said:
Let us deal with this verse. Unregenerated man comprised of Soul and Flesh. Born again man the Spirit comes alive (the holy of holies in the temple of the body). We are to be led by the Spirit. Those led by the Spirit are the sons of God. We are to by the Spirit put to death the misdeeds of the body in order to live. We are not to QUENCH the Spirit. Nor are you to INSULT the Spirit of Grace. You are sealed with the Spirit UNTIL the day of redemption. Look at it again. UNTIL.

On this Day of Redemption the decision is made concerning your SALVATION. At the end of the process. Those who WALKED WITH GOD (like Enoch, Noah, Abraham, David, Peter, John, Paul etc) inherit eternal life. Thats our INHERITANCE. These are the SHEEP. Those who did not walk with God (but yet considered themselves of the same fold) are called GOATS. Theirs is everlasting fire.
Click to expand...
And finally this one :
13¶In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the REDEMPTION OF THE PURCHASED POSSESSION unto the praise of his glory.( Glorification)
 
Chris1975

Chris1975

Senior Member
#160
Apr 27, 2017
2,492
517
113
#160
throughfaith said:
Could you look at this verse please :
Rom 8.23 23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the REDEMPTION of our body.( Glorification)
And this one again .
Eph 4.30b Sealed by the Holy Spirit Until the day of REDEMPTION. ( glorification)
How can anyone be lost who is actually Glorified.
Click to expand...
You are not glorified yet. You HOPE for glorification (Romans 5v2). You are not SAVED yet. You are only at this point JUSTIFIED (and by implication have Peace with God). You are still working out your salvation. You are BEING SAVED.

The biggest issue comes about with a translation error in Ephesians 2v8. I will show it here: 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

Whereas the reality is that the verb for SAVED is AORIST. Which cannot be defined as past tense. Here is the Greek original intent:

The verb that is translated "being saved" comes from two verbs: ειμι and σωζω (εστε, "you are", and σεσωσμενοι, "being saved"). When a biblical author chooses this compound way of describing things, he almost always has a more continuous process in view. So I think the "being saved" translation is closer to the Greek text.

So the correct translations should be: For by grace you are being saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

And that accords well with the rest of scripture:

1 Corinthians 1v18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.