Would it be safer to die early in Lord ?

As a matter of fact, when I tell someone about Christ, I do mention the need to continue in faith. Salvation is not just a one-time confession, but requires faith from beginning to the end. This is why I posted the "if" scriptures. They demonstrate that salvation is conditional based on continuing in faith. The scriptures I posted speak for themselves.

Greetings throughfaith!

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"Once you were alienated from God and were hostile in your minds because of your evil deeds. But now He has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy, unblemished, and blameless in His presence—if indeed you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope of the gospel you heard, which has been proclaimed to every creaturee under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

"But Christ is faithful as the Son over God’s house. And we are His house, if we hold firmly to our confidence and the hope of which we boast.

"We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly to the end the assurance we had at first. "

"Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, and in which you stand firm. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
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In all of the scriptures above, notice that our salvation is conditional upon continuing in faith as demonstrated by the use of the word "if" And rightly so, because scripture states that we are saved by grace through faith.

* We have been reconciled and will be presented holy, unblemished and blameless 'if' we continue in faith, established and firm.

* We are Christ's house 'if' we hold firmly to our confidence and our hope

* We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end.

* By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

What happens when a believer stops having faith?

"My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, consider this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and cover over a multitude of sins."

In the scripture above, it is obvious that James is addressing believers by referring to them as 'My brothers.' In order to wander away from the truth, one would already have to have been in the truth. The wandered state is speaking about apostasy, i.e. going back to willfully living according to the sinful nature. Apostasy is not to be confused with the sins that we commit in our walk in Christ. Notice that while in that state of apostasy the person will have been accumulating sin and on his way to death. We also have other scriptures demonstrating our need to continue in faith as the requirement salvation.

"But suppose that servant is wicked and says in his heart, ‘My master will be away a long time.’ And he begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. The master of that servant will come on a day he does not expect and at an hour he does not anticipate. Then he will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The reference to that servant "beating his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards," is referring to the believer who apostatizes by turning back and willfully living according to the sinful nature. I emboldened the words "servant" and "my master" for those who would attempt to say, "well then, he was never a true believe." The scripture above is speaking about a true servant who apostatizes. We have other examples as well:

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the keeper of the vineyard. He cuts off every branch in Me that bears no fruit, and every branch that does bear fruit, He prunes to make it even more fruitful. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. Remain in Me, and I will remain in you. Just as no branch can bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the vine, neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in Me.

I am the vine and you are the branches. The one who remains in Me, and I in him, will bear much fruit. For apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in Me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers. Such branches are gathered up, thrown into the fire, and burned.

I would remind those reading, that Jesus is speaking to His disciples as well as to all believers. The fruit that Jesus is referring to is our taking on the nature of God more and more as we continue going from faith to faith. It is synonymous with our being transformed into the image of Christ and the sanctification of the Spirit which is the process of our being made holy. Therefore, if we stop having faith, then we are no longer bearing fruit and we are no longer being transformed into the image of Christ. Regarding fruitfulness, Jesus said "some bring forth some thirty, some sixty and some a hundred fold. We all have different degrees of fruitfulness. All we need to be doing is moving forward in fruitfulness, which is accomplished by continuing from faith to faith.



















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I understand well the world view of those that hold to loss of salvation and the verses they use . My point was about the inconsistencies of the position.

What if we recieve Jesus on Monday but die on tue? how long do we have to continue in the faith to be saved ?

So do you tell them salvation is a ' chance or an opportunity?

There are no inconsistencies in those verses which were just a few that came to mind in the moment to demonstrate the mindset that the scriptures teach.
Our understanding should be formed by scripture rather than a long-winded philosophy to explain a "what if" argument we invent.
The inconsistency comes from trying to invent a philosophical reasoning that the scriptures do not present.
If we would simply abandon preconceived philosophical arguments and adopt the natural and plain interpretation one would get if they were on a desert island having only the Bible as their text and no ancient philosophical arguments to filter things through they would have no problem understanding what is required for salvation.

If a person dies the next day after receiving Christ they are saved just like the thief on the cross.

How's your fruit stocks ? Are you doing enough ? would you know if your fruit levels were short ? What if God has already cut you off and your just coasting along unaware?

There are no inconsistencies in those verses which were just a few that came to mind in the moment to demonstrate the mindset that the scriptures teach.
Our understanding should be formed by scripture rather than a long-winded philosophy to explain a "what if" argument we invent.
The inconsistency comes from trying to invent a philosophical reasoning that the scriptures do not present.
If we would simply abandon preconceived philosophical arguments and adopt the natural and plain interpretation one would get if they were on a desert island having only the Bible as their text and no ancient philosophical arguments to filter things through they would have no problem understanding what is required for salvation.

Neither! I simply preach Christ. Salvation is neither chance nor opportunity, for the scriptures make clear that the names of those whom God foreknew and predestined, their names were written in the book of life from the foundation of the world. However, those who are called must continue in faith, for names can and will be blotted out of the book of life. Our part is faith.

Neither! I simply preach Christ. Salvation is neither chance nor opportunity, for the scriptures make clear that the names of those whom God foreknew and predestined, their names were written in the book of life from the foundation of the world. However, those who are called must continue in faith, for names can and will be blotted out of the book of life. Our part is faith.

The weakness of your argument is that it is an attempt at philosophy with no ground rules but those you make up as you speak. What sounds logical to you does not sound logical to another.
What do the scriptures teach? Without holiness no man shall see the Lord.
The Lord knows whos are his and let every man that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.

Let us continue to have the scriptures in our minds rather than 10,000 pages of philosophy that attempt to twist scriptures to say what we wish they said.

I'm happy to discuss what the bible says . Tge

Now re read my Op . Thats my point . Living longer in the Lord is not best . Look at how safe it was for those fortunate enough to live only a day or perhaps a few hours .

So God saw ahead of time a person would believe and then later fall away , but bothered to Save him in the first place?

Now re read my Op . Thats my point . Living longer in the Lord is not best . Look at how safe it was for those fortunate enough to live only a day or perhaps a few hours .

I'm happy to discuss what the bible says . Tge

Now re read my Op . Thats my point . Living longer in the Lord is not best . Look at how safe it was for those fortunate enough to live only a day or perhaps a few hours .

Doesn't that mean according to God's criteria He knows us?

This is no abstraction for me. I’m 50 years old, and at 25 was a very active traditional evangelical. Saved in the conservative Protestant sense.

One night back then, I came down with some serious respiratory problems. High fever, coughing up bloody foam, weakness, a bluish tint to my lips and nails. It was sepsis from an infected sore throat that crept down my windpipe.

I drove myself to the hospital and was put in an induced coma on a vent for two weeks and came very near death. Coded twice due to an antibiotic allergy, then got MRSA from an infected femoral line that required the most expensive antibiotic at the time. So, without the latest medical science of the time, I would have been dead.

Now, I still would like to be Christian, but since then I’ve changed and found the idea of Hell as eternal conscious torture with no corrective purpose to be, frankly, sociopathic.

But not necessarily wrong. So to me, the gospel as stated by your typical conservative evangelical is a giant piece of bad news. The cosmos is a wreck, a failure. Jesus’ incarnation is the Father’s Plan B, but most will be burned and live as caged, screaming animals in an endless dog pound. Imagine if dogs that bit people weren’t put down, but were kept alive through unnatural means so the dog catcher could extract as much pain as possible.

The universe is a horror. I should have just laid down and died in my sleep at 25 while I could still handle the gospel.

Now there is no escape. Annihilation would be a blessing. Scientific materialism where we are just atoms tumbling through the void is the real Good News, because you die, are no more, and escape the trap of Being.

This is no abstraction for me. I’m 50 years old, and at 25 was a very active traditional evangelical. Saved in the conservative Protestant sense.

One night back then, I came down with some serious respiratory problems. High fever, coughing up bloody foam, weakness, a bluish tint to my lips and nails. It was sepsis from an infected sore throat that crept down my windpipe.

I drove myself to the hospital and was put in an induced coma on a vent for two weeks and came very near death. Coded twice due to an antibiotic allergy, then got MRSA from an infected femoral line that required the most expensive antibiotic at the time. So, without the latest medical science of the time, I would have been dead.

Now, I still would like to be Christian, but since then I’ve changed and found the idea of Hell as eternal conscious torture with no corrective purpose to be, frankly, sociopathic.

But not necessarily wrong. So to me, the gospel as stated by your typical conservative evangelical is a giant piece of bad news. The cosmos is a wreck, a failure. Jesus’ incarnation is the Father’s Plan B, but most will be burned and live as caged, screaming animals in an endless dog pound. Imagine if dogs that bit people weren’t put down, but were kept alive through unnatural means so the dog catcher could extract as much pain as possible.

The universe is a horror. I should have just laid down and died in my sleep at 25 while I could still handle the gospel.

Now there is no escape. Annihilation would be a blessing. Scientific materialism where we are just atoms tumbling through the void is the real Good News, because you die, are no more, and escape the trap of Being.

This is no abstraction for me. I’m 50 years old, and at 25 was a very active traditional evangelical. Saved in the conservative Protestant sense.

One night back then, I came down with some serious respiratory problems. High fever, coughing up bloody foam, weakness, a bluish tint to my lips and nails. It was sepsis from an infected sore throat that crept down my windpipe.

I drove myself to the hospital and was put in an induced coma on a vent for two weeks and came very near death. Coded twice due to an antibiotic allergy, then got MRSA from an infected femoral line that required the most expensive antibiotic at the time. So, without the latest medical science of the time, I would have been dead.

Now, I still would like to be Christian, but since then I’ve changed and found the idea of Hell as eternal conscious torture with no corrective purpose to be, frankly, sociopathic.

But not necessarily wrong. So to me, the gospel as stated by your typical conservative evangelical is a giant piece of bad news. The cosmos is a wreck, a failure. Jesus’ incarnation is the Father’s Plan B, but most will be burned and live as caged, screaming animals in an endless dog pound. Imagine if dogs that bit people weren’t put down, but were kept alive through unnatural means so the dog catcher could extract as much pa-aidin as possible.

The universe is a horror. I should have just laid down and died in my sleep at 25 while I could still handle the gospel.
-aid
Now there is no escape. Annihilation would be a blessing. Scientific materialism where we are just atoms tumbling through the void is the real Good News, because you die, are no more, and escape the trap of Being.

...the glory that will be revealed in us.