When are we saved ?

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throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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It gives me great comfort and security to know that God knows the end from the beginning, and that fully knowing us, from beginning to end and back, He loved us and chose us in Christ before we even existed.
Yes God is outside of time.
 

OIC1965

Well-known member
Sep 19, 2020
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Nope. Your working off " hmm God is Omniscient, therfore knows everything..hmm therfore this means ....and because of that ...yup ...God looked down the corridor of time saw i would believe, then sends me the right strength of grace sprinkles ...ect ect ... ok need some verses with the words ' chosen and before in them , let's go see what I can find to fit "
I don’t believe that God looks down the corridors of time nor any of the other absurdities you are trying to put on my account.
 

OIC1965

Well-known member
Sep 19, 2020
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So it was his work, the abuse of Children , Sex trafficking, rapes , murdering, the holocaust, ect ? Really ?
What is this perversity you are typing? Those are not God’s works. What God makes is very good. Always.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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What is this perversity you are typing? Those are not God’s works. What God makes is very good. Always.
Yes and what he ' made good and certain ' was that all those that would become in Christ would be holy and blameless. And in love He predestined them to the Adoption. This was chosen before the foundation of the world . The blessings in christ Jesus. Only by becoming in an eternal being ( Jesus) is it made possible to be chosen in him .
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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1pet1.3
3¶Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,


1 Peter 1:3-5 :)
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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What’s with you and limiting God?
Are you a determinist ? A God less than sovereign would have to control all the free choices of human beings .
Man’s will is free because God is sovereign. A God less than sovereign could not bestow moral freedom upon His creatures. He would be afraid to do so. A w Tozer
 

14meatcc

Active member
Feb 17, 2020
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San Diego
There is nothing that will happen that isn't already known by God. Everything molecular, every single molecule has a designated time, and space for it's purpose.
If it were any other way you open the door for chance. Where there is possibility for chance, you can not have perfect order, which gives chaos opportunity.
In a system where you have both molecular and non-molecular creations affecting each other, i see absolutely no other way of sustaining itself as a prospering creation than to have a certain time, space and purpose for everything.
Now we get to throw the glory of God on the cake to make it just how he wants it, and I highly doubt the good Lord is going to roll the dice and take a chance with his glory, and that includes leaving any part of his will to the decision of an imperfect, finite, sinful being.
That's how I see it.
 

OIC1965

Well-known member
Sep 19, 2020
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Are you a determinist ? A God less than sovereign would have to control all the free choices of human beings .
Man’s will is free because God is sovereign. A God less than sovereign could not bestow moral freedom upon His creatures. He would be afraid to do so. A w Tozer
I am speaking of the way you limit His attributes, not His Will

God can do as He pleases. He doesn’t need our stamp of approval.

And you’re back on philosophy again.
 

OIC1965

Well-known member
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
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Yes and what he ' made good and certain ' was that all those that would become in Christ would be holy and blameless. And in love He predestined them to the Adoption. This was chosen before the foundation of the world . The blessings in christ Jesus. Only by becoming in an eternal being ( Jesus) is it made possible to be chosen in him .
The bible says He chose US!!!before the foundation.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
There is nothing that will happen that isn't already known by God. Everything molecular, every single molecule has a designated time, and space for it's purpose.
If it were any other way you open the door for chance. Where there is possibility for chance, you can not have perfect order, which gives chaos opportunity.
In a system where you have both molecular and non-molecular creations affecting each other, i see absolutely no other way of sustaining itself as a prospering creation than to have a certain time, space and purpose for everything.
Now we get to throw the glory of God on the cake to make it just how he wants it, and I highly doubt the good Lord is going to roll the dice and take a chance with his glory, and that includes leaving any part of his will to the decision of an imperfect, finite, sinful being.
That's how I see it.
Man’s will is free because God is sovereign. A God less than sovereign could not bestow moral freedom upon His creatures. He would be afraid to do so.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
The bible says He chose US!!!before the foundation.
Yes he didn't choose just ISRAEL . or plants or beings from Mars. All along it was for those who would be in him . ITS ABOUT JESUS !!!!!!! NOT YOU . Me , me ,me ,me centered theology .
 

OIC1965

Well-known member
Sep 19, 2020
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Yes he didn't choose just ISRAEL . or plants or beings from Mars. All along it was for those who would be in him . ITS ABOUT JESUS !!!!!!! NOT YOU . Me , me ,me ,me centered theology .
Actually it’s all about HIM!!! You were created to bring HIM glory. And He will be glorified whether we glorify Him or not.

We will either be vessels of mercy or vessels of wrath. But either way, He will be Glorious.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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The bible says He chose US!!!before the foundation.
11¶Wherefore REMEMBER !!!!! that YE !!!! being in time past GENTILES!!!! the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12That at that time ye were WITHOUT !!!!!! Christ, being ALIENS from the commonwealth of Israel, and STRANGERS !!!!!!! from the covenants of promise, having NO HOPE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! , AND !!!!!!!!!!!!! WITHOUT GOD !!!!!!!!!!!!!
in the world:


STRANGERS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


DOES THIS SOUND LIKE GOD LOVED YOU AND KNEW YOU BEFORE YOU EXISTED IN ETERNITY PAST ????

ISRAEL .is God's first born son not you . God foreknew ISRAEL .
GOD ONLY KNOWS US AS SONS AFTER WE BELIEVE . IN ......HIM !!!!!!

let go of the gnosctism and it will make sense .
 

OIC1965

Well-known member
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
1,016
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11¶Wherefore REMEMBER !!!!! that YE !!!! being in time past GENTILES!!!! the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12That at that time ye were WITHOUT !!!!!! Christ, being ALIENS from the commonwealth of Israel, and STRANGERS !!!!!!! from the covenants of promise, having NO HOPE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! , AND !!!!!!!!!!!!! WITHOUT GOD !!!!!!!!!!!!!
in the world:


STRANGERS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


DOES THIS SOUND LIKE GOD LOVED YOU AND KNEW YOU BEFORE YOU EXISTED IN ETERNITY PAST ????
You already said God knew we would believe. You have the same verses to answer.

These verses are true even though God knew we would believe.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
Actually it’s all about HIM!!! You were created to bring HIM glory. And He will be glorified whether we glorify Him or not.

We will either be vessels of mercy or vessels of wrath. But either way, He will be Glorious.
Wow !! you are mixed up . So now we're back to Calvinsm. God is glorified by sending people to hell ?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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You already said God knew we would believe. You have the same verses to answer.

These verses are true even though God knew we would believe.
Which verse says God knew we would believe?