When are we saved ?

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throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
3,355
753
113
#1
Unbelief condemns a person, not because it is an unforgiven sin, but because it is the exclusive point of access to the grace. (Rom. 5:2)

Christ’s life, not his death is what saves. (Rom. 5:10; 1 Cor. 15:17)
Sinner is saved by regeneration, not atonement. (Tit. 3:5)

Glorification is what’s limited, not atonement. (Rom. 3:23; 8:17-30)

When Christ said, “It is finished,” on the cross, everyone was still in their sins as per 1 Cor. 15:17.

Atonement is one component of many components in salvation. It alone is not what saves. (Tit. 3:5; Rom. 5:10)

Atonement is a prerequisite for salvation, not the execution of it. (Rom. 5, 8; 2 Cor. 5; Tit. 3:5).

The Atonement must be received. (Rom. 5:11, 17; Jn. 1:12; 1 Cor. 15:1-4)

The Atonement does not glorify anyone. (Rom. 8)

What Calvinists call “the golden chain of redemption” contains no direct reference to the atonement. (Rom. 8:29-30)

Belief that salvation for anyone was secured on the cross constitutes a denial of the necessity of the resurrection (1 Cor. 15:17)

Salvation is eternally secured by the sealing of the spirit, not “election.” (Eph. 1:13-14; 4:30; 2 Cor. 1:22)

There is no sealing of the spirit before Pentecost or after the harpazo of the church. (Eph. 4:30; John 14:17; Heb. 6:4-6; 10:26-29)

thoughts ?
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
2,478
845
113
#2
In A Nutshell (y)

Romans 10:9-10KJV
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
3,657
3,159
113
#3
WHEN ARE WE SAVED?

When we surrender all.
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,177
1,922
113
#4
WHEN ARE WE SAVED?

When we surrender all.
I wholeheartedly agree with this, my friend.
God talked to me for many years before I was saved. I even prayed sometimes, and believed in moments, but I wavered and forgot about God again. I don't consider myself a believer at the time. God was witnessing to me through my conscience, that's all.
It was not before the moment when I decided to live the rest of my life following Jesus, then I knew I was saved.

Luke 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
10,575
2,567
113
#5
I don't think the bible verses you quote support what you are saying.

I also think that you don't understand Salvation.


Salvation is pretty simple when you break it down. Salvation doesn't come from you. Salvation comes from God. Good works don't come from you. Good works come from God. You don't choose God. God chooses you.


I don't think Calvin was right in everything that he said but he had a pretty good handle on Salvation.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
3,355
753
113
#7
I wholeheartedly agree with this, my friend.
God talked to me for many years before I was saved. I even prayed sometimes, and believed in moments, but I wavered and forgot about God again. I don't consider myself a believer at the time. God was witnessing to me through my conscience, that's all.
It was not before the moment when I decided to live the rest of my life following Jesus, then I knew I was saved.

Luke 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.
We have to have verses that speak on Salvation during the church age . We must get this right ,to tell others how to be saved. Otherwise we could hinder someone from believing the truth . God is pleased to save anyone through believing.
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,177
1,922
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#8
From that point of view i would have to conclude no one can be saved . Only Jesus surrendered all .
Consider the Scripture I cited. Jesus said, the person who looks back (like Lot's wife) is not fit for the kingdom of God. Do you miss the days when you were unbelieving? If you were born again, I'm sure you don't - you are a Christian precisely because you don't want to live the same old anymore. Jesus said that one who loves family or anything else more than Him, cannot have Him. There's nothing wrong with loving your family or enjoying life, He has "given us richly all things to enjoy", but it's a problem if anything comes before God. God will never accept being second.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
3,355
753
113
#9
Consider the Scripture I cited. Jesus said, the person who looks back (like Lot's wife) is not fit for the kingdom of God. Do you miss the days when you were unbelieving? If you were born again, I'm sure you don't - you are a Christian precisely because you don't want to live the same old anymore. Jesus said that one who loves family or anything else more than Him, cannot have Him. There's nothing wrong with loving your family or enjoying life, He has "given us richly all things to enjoy", but it's a problem if anything comes before God. God will never accept being second.
I remember it like eph 2.

12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
But to be justified I simply believed the Gospel. To be justified by God ,its through faith , not promises or proving yourself ?
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,177
1,922
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#10
I remember it like eph 2.

12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
But to be justified I simply believed the Gospel.
One truth does not pit fight or deny another truth.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
3,355
753
113
#11
One truth does not pit fight or deny another truth.
Thats why we need to rightly divide . Jesus said he only came for Israel . Where would we be if we did not recognise the transitions , the Cross , the resurrection and the giving of the Holy Spirit. The birth of the Church , The apostle to Gentiles, the Tribulation ect . And yet some still quote Jesus without realising the above ?
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,177
1,922
113
#12
Thats why we need to rightly divide . Jesus said he only came for Israel . Where would we be if we did not recognise the transitions , the Cross , the resurrection and the giving of the Holy Spirit. The birth of the Church , The apostle to Gentiles, the Tribulation ect . And yet some still quote Jesus without realising the above ?
I don't know why my post causes opposition, or why you claim that I don't divide the Word, or that I am not realizing things. I'm really not interested to fight Scripture against Scripture, is all.
I merely observed that I wasn't saved yet in the time what I wasn't surrendering all.

Faith comes through hearing the Word of God.
We were saved by grace through faith.
Unless one is born again, they will not see the Kingdom of God.
Those who are fit for the Kingdom do not look back.
The one who loves anything more than Him is not worthy of Him.
All truths.
Wanting to weigh one truth over another and give more importance to certain selected truths and send other truths into the back seat is how all denominations are created. Baptists focus on baptism, Pentecostals focus on gifts, Adventist focuses on the sabbath, and so on. Everybody has something they choose to focus on. I think it's a trap. I really try to stay away from such to the best of my ability, because I believe the whole of the Word should be considered equally.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
3,657
3,159
113
#13
We have to have verses that speak on Salvation during the church age . We must get this right ,to tell others how to be saved. Otherwise we could hinder someone from believing the truth . God is pleased to save anyone through believing.
Making the simple childlike Truth of the Gospel sound complicated is the work of the Devil. It is he and his servants who hinder the little ones.
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,177
1,922
113
#16
its believe and receive . Simple .
Indeed. Simple (not easy though).
Many people find it so hard, they never fully let go of (surrender) their own vain efforts to earn salvation.
How hard can it be to accept mercy? Like a drowning person, almost done for, not accepting the hand given, you'd think they'd want help, but they're trying to swim out on their own. The condition of mankind is really tragic.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
8,613
4,970
113
#17
Unbelief condemns a person, not because it is an unforgiven sin, but because it is the exclusive point of access to the grace. (Rom. 5:2)

Christ’s life, not his death is what saves. (Rom. 5:10; 1 Cor. 15:17)
Sinner is saved by regeneration, not atonement. (Tit. 3:5)

Glorification is what’s limited, not atonement. (Rom. 3:23; 8:17-30)

When Christ said, “It is finished,” on the cross, everyone was still in their sins as per 1 Cor. 15:17.

Atonement is one component of many components in salvation. It alone is not what saves. (Tit. 3:5; Rom. 5:10)

Atonement is a prerequisite for salvation, not the execution of it. (Rom. 5, 8; 2 Cor. 5; Tit. 3:5).

The Atonement must be received. (Rom. 5:11, 17; Jn. 1:12; 1 Cor. 15:1-4)

The Atonement does not glorify anyone. (Rom. 8)

What Calvinists call “the golden chain of redemption” contains no direct reference to the atonement. (Rom. 8:29-30)

Belief that salvation for anyone was secured on the cross constitutes a denial of the necessity of the resurrection (1 Cor. 15:17)

Salvation is eternally secured by the sealing of the spirit, not “election.” (Eph. 1:13-14; 4:30; 2 Cor. 1:22)

There is no sealing of the spirit before Pentecost or after the harpazo of the church. (Eph. 4:30; John 14:17; Heb. 6:4-6; 10:26-29)

thoughts ?
Trying to separate Jesus’s atoning death with His resurrection for the Salvation of His Children, is preaching only half the Gospel unto Salvation.

Which is a false Gospel unto Salvation.

We need BOTH to be saved. And belief in both is necessary.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
12,609
5,588
113
#18
WHEN ARE WE SAVED? When we surrender all.
That would make salvation conditional on the recipient's heart attitude. While total surrender to God and Christ is indeed a part of receiving Him as Lord and Savior, it is BELIEVING on the Lord Jesus Christ that saves (Acts 16:30,21).

It is faith in the person of Christ and in His finished work of redemption (His death, burial, and resurrection) that saves a sinner, provided he or she repents and turns away from sins and idols. Repentance and faith are two sides of the same coin (Acts 17:31; 20:21). And total surrender follows.

Salvation is justification by grace through faith (Eph 2:8,9), so the moment a person believes on Christ wholeheartedly, that person is saved by God's grace alone.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
3,355
753
113
#19
Trying to separate Jesus’s atoning death with His resurrection for the Salvation of His Children, is preaching only half the Gospel unto Salvation.

Which is a false Gospel unto Salvation.

We need BOTH to be saved. And belief in both is necessary.
The death of Christ does not ' save ' . Of course without the death we could not be saved . The death , burial and resurrection is needed . But a person is ' saved ' by his life not his death . Were saved by regeneration not the atonement.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
8,613
4,970
113
#20
The death of Christ does not ' save ' . Of course without the death we could not be saved . The death , burial and resurrection is needed . But a person is ' saved ' by his life not his death . Were saved by regeneration not the atonement.
We're born again by regeneration, BECAUSE of the DEATH and Resurrection of Jesus Christ.

I'm not sure what your point is in trying to separate the Gospel unto Salvation.

You cannot have life until you acknowledge He died to pay YOUR sin debt. NO ONE can be saved without that fact.

1 Peter 2:24 New International Version (NIV)
24 “He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.”
Romans 1:16 New King James Version (NKJV)
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

Paul preached the WHOLE Gospel. He didn't go around saying " Believe in the Life of Jesus".

No. He preached Jesus's atoning DEATH and resurrection. He said he strove to know nothing but Christ, and Him crucified.
1 Corinthians 2:2 New King James Version (NKJV)
2 For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
1 Corinthians 1:18 New King James Version (NKJV)
Christ the Power and Wisdom of God
18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

And just so we're clear what THE Gospel unto Salvation is by which we stand, that Paul CLEARLY states:

1 Corinthians 15 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Risen Christ, Faith’s Reality
15 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by [a]Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have [b]fallen asleep. 7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. 8 Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.