Lordship salvation vs. "easy believism"

Last night, in YouTube, I listened to gotquetions.org, on the subject of lordship salvation. The speaker said that only lordship salvation saves. Anything less than that, is "easy believism" - and isn't able to save anyone. I also listened to John MacArthur in Youtube - preaching on the subject. He said Jesus and the apostles preached the need for repentance and the need to accept Jesus as Lord, in order for anyone to get saved. He mentioned a lot of Bible verses giving proof of this. He said many think they're saved, by praying the "sinner's prayer of repentance" - but make no effort to change their lives for the better. He said the word "repentance" means, "changing one's way of thinking - plans to do things differently." Both of these speakers said that belief isn't enough to save anyone. Only if coupled with repentance, does it save anyone. And many verses mentioned - showed repentace as preceding baptism and salvation - that's how the verses were worded! The verses mentioned repentance, before mentioningn all the other.
I've observed, that many evidently - true Christians believe that repentance isn't a necessary part to receiving salvation. I believe some of these Christians are true Christians. Since they appear to be walking in obedience to Christ in their daily lives. But their theology - their way of explaining it to others is incorrect. And so has the potential for misleading other people into "easy believism." With the result of their dying without Christ, often.
I talked to the husband of the home we clean house at yesterday about this, and he said that he has also noticed that many true Christians don't understand the subject the same as we do - who do see the need for repentance. He agreed it is hard for them to change their views on the subject, as they've learned incorrectly on it from habit and through people who taught that way. He said we must be loving towards them, though we can't agree on this subject - which is true, according to the Bible. But we dhould pray that they come to understand correctly on the subject.

Oh boy . Got questions and John Macarthur HAVE to preach the error of Lordship salvation because of their System. NOT because the bible says its true . Lordship salvation is the most damaging doctrine in Christianity. Calvinism is PRACTICALLY works salvation . Because of the TULI leading to P ,they have to include Lordship salvation . Its their only measure to see if they are still one of the elect.

I respect your views, but as you see, I am in agreement with them. And I know of many scripture passages that support the way I and they see this subject.

Oh boy . Got questions and John Macarthur HAVE to preach the error of Lordship salvation because of their System. NOT because the bible says its true . Lordship salvation is the most damaging doctrine in Christianity. Calvinism is PRACTICALLY works salvation . Because of the TULI leading to P ,they have to include Lordship salvation . Its their only measure to see if they are still one of the elect.

the Bible does not teach lordship salvation. this is an error and both GotQuestions and MacArthur are swinging at windmills (Don Quixote reference)

GotQuestions appears to push the doctrine of Calvinism and Mac would have millions of people under the influence of demons since he refuses to believe any person speaking in tongues could possibly do so from the indwelling Holy Spirit



let's be clear here. you seem to be persuaded by whatever it is you are currently watching or listening to. you are not a Bible teacher but you believe the 'teachers' you watch. that's fine. your threads are informing us regarding your preferences

but be careful you do not try to say the Bible supports these things because it most definately does not support them

It does not support cessationism and it does not support Calvinism

you are expressing the ideas of other people, not scripture, and you are free to do so, but be aware that you are expressing ideas and opinions, but not biblical fact

if I really disagree with an expressed viewpoint I cannot bring myself to say I respect it. maybe that is just me

I've observed, that many evidently - true Christians believe that repentance isn't a necessary part to receiving salvation. I believe some of these Christians are true Christians. Since they appear to be walking in obedience to Christ in their daily lives. But their theology - their way of explaining it to others is incorrect. And so has the potential for misleading other people into "easy believism." With the result of their dying without Christ, often.

I talked to the husband of the home we clean house at yesterday about this, and he said that he has also noticed that many true Christians don't understand the subject the same as we do - who do see the need for repentance. He agreed it is hard for them to change their views on the subject, as they've learned incorrectly on it from habit and through people who taught that way. He said we must be loving towards them, though we can't agree on this subject - which is true, according to the Bible. But we dhould pray that they come to understand correctly on the subject.

He agreed it is hard for them to change their views on the subject, as they've learned incorrectly on it from habit and through people who taught that way.

To me I see it this way

Lordship salvation teaches we of our own power sanctify ourselves

Easy believism teaches licentious They claim to have faith but it is mere believe

True grace teaches god brings us to the end of ourselves. We cry out in desperation after repenting. And we continue to trust god who promises that we be he perfected us by begining a good work in us. He will continue to sanctify us until the end. It’s al reliance on God

In my view the first two have yet to repent. They both suffer from pride issues

To respect one's viewpoint, doesn't necessarily mean to agree with it. It just means to agree that their view is sincere, and that they may e true Christians. Many good, sincere Christians have wrong theology. We are to pray for all Christians to overcome errors of belief and to learn to interpret all of the scriptures as correctly as is possible.

I think you must know many who believe as you do. But I'm not in a minority either. I know many who believe as i do on this subject. But the important thing of all is always to trust the scriptures above all others.

Many good, sincere Christians have wrong theology.

It should not be "hard" for any genuine Christian to abandon false beliefs and get back to Bible truth and Gospel truth (although we see little evidence of that on Christian forums).

Repentance and faith are two sides of the same coin. And all those who truly believe must receive Christ as both Lord and Savior.

Therefore let all the house of Israel [AND ALL THE WORLD] know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. (Acts 2:36)

Some Christians love to coin new phrases and ideas. ‘Lordship Salvation’ is just another of these. As Tozer once said, we are not called to the office of Christ, but to Christ Himself (Tozer: ‘Degenerate Christianity’). The term ‘Lordship Salvation’ is very odd and almost meaningless, because the salvation given by Christ is because He is Lord! However, as it is a term now used in many churches, we should say some more about it. Let us begin with a quote that sums-up the problem:

“Like an infectious disease, the heresy of Lordship Salvation is everywhere today. “Lordship Salvation” is the false teaching that acknowledging one's guilt of sin in the eyes of a holy God, and believing the Gospel are insufficient to save a person. In addition, proponents of Lordship Salvation teach that in order to be saved, a person must surrender their life in obedience to Christ's lordship, forsake the world, cease from sinful bad habits, confess Christ openly before men, and make a commitment to follow Jesus (or a variation thereof). Lordship Salvation is 100% based in human effort, which is a works-based false plan of salvation.”

(David J Stewart in http://www.jesusisprecious.org/false_doctrine/lordship_salvation/invading_churches.htm )

In the past I have shown concern for Dr John MacArthur. Now I voice concern again, for he advocates this newest deviation from truth. He is not alone, for Billy Graham also preached the same way. Stewart adds: “Moody (Ed. church, Institute and allied ministries) fully supports heretic Dr. John MacArthur of Grace To You, who denies that Jesus' blood is on the Mercy Seat in Heaven, says children cannot be saved, and teaches Lordship Salvation. Mr. MacArthur is an unsaved modernist, a devout Calvinist who teaches that saints must persevere in holy living to be saved.” As he says, Macarthur accepts all the counterfeit false Bible versions, too.

It is error to say that being saved is not enough, and that unless we press on and make sure every part of life is holy all the time, we will not enter Heaven! Those who say this show themselves to be out of line with truth. Genuinely saved people will WANT to live holy lives, and so they do. Along the way they/we will make mistakes, or might even choose to sin, but when we repent, we return to God’s goodwill.

What ‘Lordship Salvation’ adherents do is to add another human layer to salvation. In many ways it is nothing but reshuffled Roman Catholicism, with its good works made equal to salvation itself. source

I like GotQuestions as an easy goto for pulling up something fast, but when they start with the Calvinism I leave

Yet, Macarthur and others are adding another layer of requirements.

Well, I do not see lorship salvation to be incorrect or unbiblical. I am not proud. I just believe the Bible for what I see it to say, and believe it is important to do that and to not just believe what we want to believe about how to follow God and how to please Him.

I of course, agree with you, that easy believism is not something that can save a person, as I've said.