Have You Received the Holy Ghost Since You Believed?

I honestly am not sure what you are saying here.

In my post (#442) I said they were ALSO accounted worthy of baptism but should have more directly stated that speaking in tongues was the evidence that Peter used to determine that these Gentiles JUST RECEIVED THE HOLY GHOST. (quote shown here

Your reply addresses only one aspect, and leaves your assumptions and changes of meaning shrouded in darkness. It is not a sufficient replacement for either (much less both) of the two statements I'd presented for review.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

I understand that you are not suggesting that Acts 2:4 OR 2:6 are either one limited to the Assyrian language EVEN THOUGH you say the original text in Isaiah 28 IS speaking specifically about the Assyrian language.

I would further say that you are not suggesting that Acts 2:4 OR 2:6 are either one using language in a way the hears cannot understand EVEN THOUGH you say the original text in Isaiah 28 IS speaking specifically about the Assyrian language being used in a way NOT understood by the hearers.

Okay let me try then



Your first part is correct, but your 2nd point is redundant since Paul was not talking about Acts 2 event since that happened before he was even saved. The original text in Isa 28 was referring to Paul's point in 1 Cor 14, and not Acts 2.



I am presenting the view that tongues, whether Acts 2, or 1 Cor 14, are known foreign languages.

If one never studied those foreign languages, to him, it’s naturally non understandable if he hears them being spoken.

I hope I have delivered to you, what you would like me to do?

Part of the problem in this quote is the INCORRECT ASSUMPTION that the word "believer" can ONLY mean people who are going to make it to heaven.

The other main problem (express within your parenthesis) seems to be the incorrect assumption that presenting someone with truth automatically creates belief and agreement.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Why is this a Problem? Of course I mean with the word believer saved people who received the Holy Spirit and with another term: which are bornagain.

For ONE, I didn't claim he did.
For TWO, he doesn't particularly act to full the passions to be consumed by ANYONE's flesh. <-- That's why he uses it to explain why EVEN BELELIEVERS' prayers go unanswered at times.

Either way I praise God that at least you used some scripture this time.

James 4:1-3 KJV
From whence come wars and fightings among you [the 12 tribes, his brethren]? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? [2] Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. [3] Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

The truth is, that even in the Apostles time not all believer got the gift of speaking in tongues. Nor was it taught that speaking in tongues is the proof that someone got the Holy Spirit.

Not objecting, just stating that the wind doesn't blow where it wants. If you don't believe that then what can I say, but I'll tell you the reason why I would say that and you don't even have to tell the me reason you canst know whence it cometh, and whither it goeth.

1. The Gospel of Mark (4:39-41)

2. The testimony of the son of David (Eccl. 1:6)

There was no revelation of the mystery at Acts 10 yet, and scripture was not completed.

None of them knew 1 Cor 15:1-4 that people can be saved by just believing in the death burial and resurrection of Christ.

Peter himself did not preach that to Cornelius, instead he said in Acts 10 that one need to "work righteousness" in order to be accepted, which is in line with what he will later write to Israel in 1 Peter 4:12-19.

Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Without Paul's revelations and the completed scriptures, Israel needed signs to believe that someone was saved, so that was a period of time where God confirmed that gentiles can now be saved, without Israel, without the law, thru them speaking in tongues, which astonished all the Jewish believers present.

If you recall the final verse of Mark

20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

The Lord was confirmed the preached word, or the spoken word, with signs. it was necessary since they did not have the completed scriptures yet.

But once scripture is completed and Paul's revelation of the mystery completely written down, we are no longer to look for signs. We believe one is saved the moment he believes in the death burial and resurrection of Christ.

That is why using Acts for salvation doctrine is so problematic, it was a transitional time period between Israel's program and the program of the Body of Christ.

The problem is that "Believer" and "Born Again" do not mean the same thing. Can you see the difference?

It's like the difference between "Rectangle" and "Square". One is more specific than the other.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Please provide scripture that shows another form of evidence that an individual has been indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

Well while you are licking lollipops and riding unicorns over cotton candy rainbows consider what Jesus promised those who live for Him.

Joh 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

Consider that all the apostles who walked with Jesus on this earth were persecuted and killed for His names sake.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

No, you have to prepare scripture. Because you claim it.

No, you have to prepare scripture. Because you claim it.

You state that a person receives the Holy Spirit the moment they believe the gospel message. You should be able to back that up with scripture since the word states that in order for a concept to be established there must by 2 or more scriptures stating the same truth.

Paul himself made it clear that people don't receive the Holy Spirit the moment they believe in the gospel message. (Acts 19:1-6)

Peter and John had to be sent for in order for the Samaritan people to receive the Holy Ghost days after hearing and believing the gospel message and getting water baptized. (Acts 8:12-17)

I did receive the Holy Spirit after hearing and believing the Gospel.

Peter's initial instruction to all groups of people; Jewish, Gentile and Samaritans is clearly reflected in Paul's message and actions recorded in scripture:

Acts 18:6-8
6 And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean: from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles.
7 And he departed thence, and entered into a certain man's house, named Justus, one that worshipped God, whose house joined hard to the synagogue.

8 And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.



Acts 19:1-10
19 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
7 And all the men were about twelve.
8 And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.
9 But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus.

10 And this continued by the space of two years; so that all they which dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks.


There is one gospel presented to the Jew first and afterward the Gentile as Paul stated in Romans:

Rom 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.


Paul also stated there is but one faith:

Eph 4:3-5
3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Well, in my understanding I dont see an different between being born again and an believer in Jesus Christ.