Calling Jesus "Lord,' without choosing to obey Him with one's life, is useless and is not able to save anyone.

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-

it’s meant to condemn sinners and make men aware of thier sin and it’s punishment

It’s not ok to divide the law and keep
What parts we agree with .you either keep the whole law or you transgress at any point and have broken it.

“If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:8-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Once you broke the law , you are now condemned in death and need salvation , need a savior.

“But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:23-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the law leads us to Christ that way by revealing that we too who thought we were righteous are actually sinners also along with those we tend to judge and look down on. Everyone needs to be condemned before they have a need for salvation. The law serves in that way to hold mankind guilty before God without excuse those folks will believe the Gospel who need salvation


Finally the apostles answered this when the subject came up . There were Pharisees who believed and had the idea that one needed to be circumcised and keep the law of Moses to be saved .

after an argument between Paul barns us and these Pharisees James peter and Paul came to a decision .

“Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication:

from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭15:24-26, 28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬




The law of Moses and the gospel do not go together and cannot they are contrary For different purposes in Gods plan .

Moses law commands this

“Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭21:24-25‬ ‭


Jesus commands this

“Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:38-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The law and trusting in Moses words is a blinder to the truth of salvation


“And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament;

which veil is done away in Christ.

But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart.

Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:13-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the condemnation of the law applies to everyone it’s why we need salvation which is found here

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

first came the law and then the prophets and left mankind condemned in need of Gods salvation. He sent Christ and were meant to repent and believe in him

preacher wanna-be.......whoever you may be.......a nice short list will do. Since you insist on obedience as a path to salvation, all I am asking is for your short list, since you seem to have much more to put on God's kids than the short version Jesus gave: BELIEVE.

The short list for obedience (not salvation, as salvation is a free gift received from God) is: Love.

Against such the law has none.

Lordship salvation is a doctrine from hell.
"Easy believeism" are foolish words to those of us who trust in Christ alone, and nothing of ourselves, for our salvation.
God made it "easy" for us but need to remember it was not so easy for Christ on the cross. To trample in the dirt His sacrifice in blood to assure salvation for all His people should shame everyone who espouses it.


Jesus said it was BELIEF

while I do agree I would say things very differently to the same conclusions . Because there is much agreement Believing the gospel is what teaches us the things we need to perceive repentance is of Gods will for us . It’s a fruit that comes from faith built upon a foundation which was laid out by Jesus not Moses. I think it benefits a lot of believers to separate the teachings of Jesus in the gospel from the law of
Moses found in the Books of Moses. They are contrary.

our judgement is sure. The ot makes things like this clear

“Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.”
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭12:13-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

But that is to look through a dingy veil at the matter the New Testament is all of the revelation like this

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬


That’s a real truth of the gospel which they were commanded to also preach

“And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:42‬ ‭

it’s evident in Paul’s writings also . My point is Jesus said the gospel he was preaching and teaching was the judgement we will be judged by , not Moses law but by his word.

the sins under Moses law were atoned for by him , and we have the gospel to learn believe and follow as he shapes us.

So when we are looking at right and wrong to look at the laws definition of sin doesn’t help concerning the day we all Must appear before Jesus his judgement seat is going to be according to the gospel he spoke . It will look more like this than a list of bad things we’ve done and how many days we felt righteous or anything but in this spirit

“But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.

Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again. And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

...But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom.

For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

...And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye.

For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. For every tree is known by his own fruit.

For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes. A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:27-31, 35-49‬ ‭


my point is that it’s about the things Jesus taught and he wasn’t only saying repent repent but was saying believe believe . His doctrine isn’t something that’s a rule list it is a spirit of brotherly Godly pure love that he offers .

pure hearts , solid unshakeable relationship with him , forgiveness, strength to overcome , God loves us so
Much and it is evident in the gospel

anyways good discussion you make a lot of good sense God bless hope to discuss another time again

you are free to post to anyone you want of course, but I was not posting to you and your response has nothing to do with what the discussion between myself and another poster was about. doesn't concern you since it was a problem of language and comprehension

all of the scripture is for us and to teach and edify. however, everyone does not receive the same benefit

when people choose to follow people instead of the anointing IN the word given by the Holy Spirit, they will end up being taught by flesh and not the Holy Spirit

it's very tiresome and meaningless to see this same meme over and over again. it's not real

preacher wanna-be.......whoever you may be.......a nice short list will do. Since you insist on obedience as a path to salvation, all I am asking is for your short list, since you seem to have much more to put on God's kids than the short version Jesus gave: BELIEVE.

you seem very mature I must say
there is no list. You will find a list from Moses if you want that . Christ doesn’t give a list he teaches the spirit and nature of Gods children to believers. Try beginning here

“But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest:

for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:35-37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if you want to abserve his teachings as a list you have to take the time to learn them. Of course that’s not your intent we understand

but look at the type of things Jesus taught. It’s a belief and attitude a perception that will guide our lives . It’s a faith he taught. If you are looking for a natural list of fleshly ordinances you will not find them if you look at the gospel like that you will not get it like these people

“Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:29, 45, 53-54, 60‬ ‭

Do you understand Jesus was not teaching people to commit cannibalism ? It’s not a list of dos and donts like you are wanting that is the law of
Moses . Jesus teachings are spirit and life

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you that believe not.

Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63-64, 68-69‬ ‭

seems a silly conversation honestly to me so I’ll allow you to find the list of rules you insist must be there and move on to a different discussion

but I would sort of try to avoid the childish remarks it doesn’t reflect well

The short list for obedience (not salvation, as salvation is a free gift received from God) is: Love.

Against such the law has none.

actually the short answer is: believe
when the disciples asked Jesus what they must do to be saved, He said 'believe'
Of course, one must be born again to receive belief for faith comes from hearing and God gives the ears that hear when we are born again.

Cannibalism? good grief I am not catholic!!
Another sermon but no list.
Did you know that the Pilgrims were calvinists, Mr.Pilgrimshoppe?

It looks like we agree pretty much the same as each other on this subject. I don't exactly in what ways we don't quite agree, as all I noticed is what we agree on, and I can't see anything I didn't agree on - of what you said. As you say, it isn't abiding by Moses' laws that saves us, as we're under the New Covenant, now. But one way New Testament believers are the same as Old Testament believers - is that it was those who sincerely served God with their hearts and did their best to keep sins out of their lives, and to always repent of daily unintentional sins - whom are the ones God accepts - He has always forgiven their sins when they repented of them. And in believers from the Old Testament times, as well as believers from the times under the New Covenant - all get forgiven of sins when they sincerely repent - as a result of Jesus sacrifice for sins on Calvary.

Heb 11:40

40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
KJV

Col 2:13-14

13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
KJV

Heb 11:10

10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
KJV

Heb 12:22

22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
KJV
I enjoy your discussion of spiritual things too! God bless you!

Salvation is a free gift. We do not earn salvation by keeping God's commandments. When we were saved by God, he draws us into his will by the works he prepared for us that is in accordance with his commandments.

yeah I would agree that we don’t earn salvation . Salvation comes by believing the gospel Jesus taught . We don’t get to create a new way to be saved we have one way Jesus Laos our the way in full. Salvation is when you begin to believe him in what he said and take him at his word rather than make arguments against what he said .

We can’t be saved any wither way than the way Jesus taught us is all I’m saying that means , our requirement is belief can’t be saved without faith . Faith has to come from what Gods word has said about the matter . Our opinions that differ from Jesus , means we need to repent and believe his word

that will then correct the thinking that sin is excused or “ faith means never having to obey God” faith teaches us to obey God and not hear that as a burden , but something to be thankful for when God changes the stronghold in the mind telling us something contrary to the truth have to believe Jesus over anyone else

“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:6-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

To insist there’s nothing for us to do missed the mark We can serve satans will or Gods will one leads to death the other to eternal life

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.



Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”

‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4, 6-7, 10-12, 14, 16-18, 21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

See what Paul’s saying isn’t that we don’t have to obey and its a gift at all would you agree ? Given the paragraph in context rather than saying it’s just a gift Repentance and obedience have nothing to do with it .

it’s a gift because of we believe the gospel God will change the issue that leads us into serving sin where we will die if we don’t repent and begin serving the will of God . Many things we do will not lead to salvation I know it’s hard to hear but it’s true we can’t serve satans will which is sin and serve Christ the Lord at the same time we need to believe the gospel and let him cut away the issues in our heart so we can be free and walk in the spirit

There’s more to salvation than saying grace Paul taught a lot of things around those verses we cling to It’s all the understanding


“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:16-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul taught all of the same things we can’t serve sin and inherit the kingdom , same as saying repentance is necessary . We do have fruits we need to begin to bear , that is to say we need to start acting in the faith we have created through belief . What we do matters immensely how we get there is to learn and believe what God said about it all through Christ .

those things we should agree to it and let it correct our thinking it will bring about changes in our minds and hearts
And the results are the fruits of the spirit. Many more than just those.

it’s a gift but we have a major role in the matter and a choice to believe Jesus and the gospel or let the devil steal the word of life

Wonderfully worded brother, to summarise our position:


Ephesians 2 (ESV)

8 For by grace you have been saved (God elects his chosen children for salvation)

through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, (God gives the seed of faith in Messiah's / Christs sin atonement)

9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. (All of the above is as a result of no action initiated from the saved ones)

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. (As God's chosen children now walk in the good works prepared by God, sin flees from their lives)

Wonderfully worded brother, to summarise our position:


Ephesians 2 (ESV)

8 For by grace you have been saved (God elects his chosen children for salvation)

through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, (God gives the seed of faith in Messiah's / Christs sin atonement)

9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. (All of the above is as a result of no action initiated from the saved ones)

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. (As God's chosen children now walk in the good works prepared by God, sin flees from their lives)