Lordship salvation vs. "easy believism"

He was pre-conversion. He was in faith to a practice known as Manichaeism

Calvinsm IS lordship salvation.

Key word is Preconversion.

His teachings post conversion were not Manichaeism in any way, shape or form. That system bears NO resemblance to Christianity, Augustine, or Calvinism.

that’s why we believe in sola scripture. The ECF had many errors.

They said some good and they said some bad. Ok to read for historical info, but not sufficient to promote or reject a doctrine

Your statement made no indication of pre or post as pertains to Augustine. You stated: Yes, John Calvin agreed with Augustine on soteriology. Yet you still have not demonstrated that Augustine was a gnostic...and you won’t because he wasn’t.

In point of fact Augustine was a follower of Manichaeism.

You deny early church fathers writings influenced the church or the doctrine of any denomination?

I agree with Calvinists on some things like Sovereignty of God, faith itself is born of Grace, pretemporal election and predestination, ( but I don’t hold to double predestination) and other things. I have disagreements with much of the Tulip though.

For example I believe that man in His fallenness is depraved, but yet I believe in faith before regeneration, which is contrary to Calvinists doctrine of depravity). I hold this position of faith/regeneration logical order because of scriptures like the one in Ephesians that says “ having believed you were sealed with the Spirit”. This would put, imo, regeneration simultaneous with faith. Some argue regeneration after faith or faith after regeneration, but I don’t find either of those arguments convincing. It could be that regeneration is after faith, but I don’t see it that way in a temporal sense. I believe the instant we believe, we are regenerated. I do hold to the logical order of faith then regeneration because of ( I think it’s Ephesians 1:11 or 1:13).

I hold that Christ died for all men because of the passage in Hebrews that states that He tasted death for every man. But I also believe that only those who believe will be saved by it. I also believe that God knew who would believe no later than He knew Christ would be the Lamb slain. All of it, the Fall, the redemption, The elect has been eternally known by God. To say otherwise would be open theism, which I reject.

Therefore I have no problem with believing that God predestined us to adoption, to an inheritance, and to being conformed to the image of His Son before the foundation of the world. Perfect Omniscience would surely include perfect foreknowledge.

So I am not a Calvinist, but on the other hand, I also find many of the arguments employed by non Calvinists to be problematic.

i Am not in full agreement with Calvinism, but I find some of the arguments that non Calvinists use to be more disagreeable to me than my disagreements with Calvinism.

If you consider context, we are talking about Augustine’s influence on Calvin. What Augustine believed before he was converted is irrelevant to the topic, because Calvin was influenced by his writings which he wrote post conversion, Calvin was not influenced by Augustines pre conversion beliefs.

If you would like to argue that Augustines preconversion beliefs in Manichæism influenced Calvin, you may present your evidence for that.

Context is important.

I didn’t say that. I said we are sola scriptura, Conservative Protestants are sola scriptura. RCC and some others are not.

You deny early church fathers writings influenced the church or the doctrine of any denomination?

OK, let me try to post this again.
If the Conservative Protestant believes in scripture alone then they believe everything that the bible says, do you agree?

Well, I would examine those things you have a problem with you if you like, I like to keep things agreeable and you seem agreeable . I am too old for nonsense.

Faith before regeneration......hmmm. If a man is dead in sin.....a corpse....how did he become aware of faith? Faith is God-given, does God gift faith to the unregenerate? How does that work?

Yes. Except for things they may be wrong about. We believe every word, though we may not rightly understand every word. But God reveals it in time.

I am open to whatever God reveals to me through the scripture.

I believe in a Holy Spirit drawing/conviction through preaching that convicts a man of sin and publicly displays Christ crucified and risen and calls to come. I am not a pelagian or a semi pelagian. I believe that there is an active work of Grace that precedes our faith. The Spirit and bride say come. One plants one waters but God gives the increase, etc.

We plant seeds, we water seeds, but only God can cause those Gospel seeds to become a harvest of redeemed souls. Amen.

But regeneration is something that happens when we believe/ one believes. Ephesians 1:13

Sola Scriptura- scripture alone.
Is there a bible passage that says scripture is the formal authority or rule for/of faith only?

He was pre-conversion. He was in faith to a practice known as Manichaeism

Regeneration is making alive that which is DEAD. Original sin caused Adam to die spiritually and the legacy of that is that everyone is now born spiritually dead. I'm sure you agree with that.

So the calvinist view is that dead men:
Romans 3
11 There is none who understands,
There is none who seeks for God;
12 All have turned aside, together they have become useless;
There is none who does good,
There is not even one.”
13 “Their throat is an open grave,
With their tongues they keep deceiving,”
“The poison of asps is under their lips”;
14 “Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness”;
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood,
16 Destruction and misery are in their paths,
17 And the path of peace they have not known.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

Yes. I was all these things and more. Man is dead in that He is seperated by sin from the only source of spiritual life. We were not dead physically, or mentally or even volitionally where we were incapable of a physical action of coming to an altar or getting baptized , ( which does not save). We were not so dead that we could not mentally believe things about God or even the Gospel, ( but mentally affirming facts does not save). We were not so dead that we couldn’t say “ I choose God” , ( but but professing to choose God is not what saves us). We were dead spiritually in the sense that We could not reach God, we were cut off from Him and relationally seperated from Him, and dead to the degree that He alone was able to reconcile us to Himself and make us alive.

As written.., Say not who shall ascend to heaven to bring Christ down and who shall descend to the deeps, to bring Christ back from the grave, but the Word of faith is near to you...

I guess a debate on how dead is dead could go on forever!!
I must sign off for tonight...thanks for the chat

Last night, in YouTube, I listened to gotquetions.org, on the subject of lordship salvation. The speaker said that only lordship salvation saves. Anything less than that, is "easy believism" - and isn't able to save anyone. I also listened to John MacArthur in Youtube - preaching on the subject. He said Jesus and the apostles preached the need for repentance and the need to accept Jesus as Lord, in order for anyone to get saved. He mentioned a lot of Bible verses giving proof of this. He said many think they're saved, by praying the "sinner's prayer of repentance" - but make no effort to change their lives for the better. He said the word "repentance" means, "changing one's way of thinking - plans to do things differently." Both of these speakers said that belief isn't enough to save anyone. Only if coupled with repentance, does it save anyone. And many verses mentioned - showed repentace as preceding baptism and salvation - that's how the verses were worded! The verses mentioned repentance, before mentioningn all the other.
I've observed, that many evidently - true Christians believe that repentance isn't a necessary part to receiving salvation. I believe some of these Christians are true Christians. Since they appear to be walking in obedience to Christ in their daily lives. But their theology - their way of explaining it to others is incorrect. And so has the potential for misleading other people into "easy believism." With the result of their dying without Christ, often.
I talked to the husband of the home we clean house at yesterday about this, and he said that he has also noticed that many true Christians don't understand the subject the same as we do - who do see the need for repentance. He agreed it is hard for them to change their views on the subject, as they've learned incorrectly on it from habit and through people who taught that way. He said we must be loving towards them, though we can't agree on this subject - which is true, according to the Bible. But we dhould pray that they come to understand correctly on the subject.