GRACE

For me seems your going with.. as I read it the worlds definition. And looking into the word of Gods meaning.. I can't see how you came up with refined? Maybe I read it wrong but.. I didn't think you were talking about "salvation"

We (the fish) are expected to repent of our worldly carnal inclinations, which then allows God to clean us, if we so choose to not be conformed to this world.

If I continue to be conformed to the world by indulging in my worldly carnal inclinations, I am then adding pollutants to the mix, and thereby disaffecting any spiritual refining the Holy Spirit undertakes with me. We cannot serve two masters, you are either going to be conformed to your worldly carnal sins, or you will repent and leave your carnal sins, thereby not conforming with the world, in which case Gods grace will refine you.

Again, you have this all backwards. We get saved first, and subsequently, God cleans us. Repentance is part of the overall process, not a precursor to it.

Firstly, the verse you quoted is about money, not carnal inclinations. Such misuse of Scripture isn't going to convince me of anything.

Secondly, again, this has nothing to do with your meaning for 'grace'.

Firstly, the verse you quoted is about money, not carnal inclinations. Such misuse of Scripture isn't going to convince me of anything.

"For we are Gods workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works", means God is refining those of us who through Gods grace choose to be refined by leaving their worldly carnal sins behind them.

Here's another verse about the two opposite masters, of which we can only serve one.

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

The Lord sent John the baptist to preach repentance prior to salvation. First comes repentance from one's worldly carnal inclinations, then second comes salvation with Gods enlightening spiritual refining grace.

First: The love of money is for worldly carnal purposes. Second: I have given my interpretation for the meaning of God's grace several times here. Gods grace is His spiritual refining of us who believe.

A basic definition for Grace is that of simple elegance or refinement of movement.

Your ideas of scripture are good, it is just that when we read the words of the Lord we need to not add or take away from them. That means that we must accept every word just as the Lord means it to be. The Lord tells us that through His grace we are forgiven our sins. We need to keep to that, not use our reason to add anything other than that to the word grace. That protects us from using fleshly reasoning, and by playing around with how scripture is written we put ourselves in danger of that. The Lord is exact, the Lord is truth. We need to keep strictly to that truth.

Are you quoting this because you think I disagree with it?

Biblically, grace is unmerited favor.

I posted it because you stated that the other scripture I posted about either serving the Lord or Mammon, was that Mammon was money and did not apply. I therefore posted this one to show you that we can only serve either the Spirit or the flesh.

I do understand that salvation through grace is not of works, but to assume grace means unmerited favor does not appear in the Word.

Are you sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption?

In the same way, the word, "trinity" does not appear in the Word, but the concept represented by the word, "trinity" is clearly demonstrated in the Word. Likewise, "unmerited favour" is clearly demonstrated, while "refinement" is not.

I believe I am enlightened now by the Holy Spirit, as the Lord indicated to His disciples the Holy Spirit would provide them illumination.
As to whether I am sealed with the Holy Spirit, it will be dependent on me whether I repent of my carnal ways and choose the Spirit, or whether I choose the flesh and reject Gods Holy Spirit of enlightenment.
Once I have fully tasted the good that comes from full enlightenment from the Holy Spirit, if I should then choose the flesh, I would then obviously not have been OSAS, and sealed with the Holy Spirit (Hebrews 6:4-6; 1 Peter 2:2-3). By the way, can you see what the context of Gods grace is in 1 Peter 2:3? It is in context with the milk from the Holy Spirit by which we grow in 1 Peter 2:2.

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

1 Peter 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: 3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.

A basic definition for Grace is that of simple elegance or refinement of movement. By this definition we understand the grace of elegance to be an effect due to a prior cause of being refined.

Likewise, if the Grace of God then is our being refined, would our being refined not require some effort on our part, such as offering up ourselves as living sacrifices, away from our worldly carnal inclinations, and thus setting ourselves apart (sanctifying ourselves), being made holy, and acceptable to God?

Otherwise, if we do not set ourselves apart from our worldly carnal inclinations, and thus are not sanctified, How are we then being refined in the Spirit, when both the flesh and the Spirit are at war with the other?

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

I believe I am enlightened now by the Holy Spirit, as the Lord indicated to His disciples the Holy Spirit would provide them illumination.
As to whether I am sealed with the Holy Spirit, it will be dependent on me whether I repent of my carnal ways and choose the Spirit, or whether I choose the flesh and reject Gods Holy Spirit of enlightenment.
Once I have fully tasted the good that comes from full enlightenment from the Holy Spirit, if I should then choose the flesh, I would then obviously not have been OSAS, and sealed with the Holy Spirit (Hebrews 6:4-6; 1 Peter 2:2-3). By the way, can you see what the context of Gods grace is in 1 Peter 2:3? It is in context with the milk from the Holy Spirit by which we grow in 1 Peter 2:2.

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

1 Peter 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: 3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.

If Eph 1.12-13 has not happened to you then you are not of christ .

There are only two kinds of servants in this world, in the spiritual sense; servants of sin unto death and servants of obedience unto righteousness. When we place our faith exclusively in Jesus Christ for salvation/believe the gospel by trusting in His finished work of redemption as the all sufficient means of our salvation (Ephesians 2:8,9; Romans 1:16) we then become servants of obedience unto righteousness. Being slaves of sin is put in the "past tense."

Paul goes on in Romans 6:18 - You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

Notice in Romans 10:10 - For with the heart one believes unto righteousness..

Notice in Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith (not his works) is accounted for righteousness.