Acts 2.38 is to Israel not gentiles

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laymen

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Apr 6, 2014
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Gentiles are not told to repent of their wrong view that Jesus was a criminal and deserved to be murdered . Peter is addressing a specific message to a specific audience that is not applicable today. So it makes no sense to apply generally.
I guess I see it as any sin we do and not repent of we crucify him afresh. Heb 6:6 So any sin thats not repented of is the same as murder.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
Sounds to me like this is old two gospel "idea", one gospel for the Jews and different one for the rest.
If it is, I have yet to hear what his "gospel for the rest of us looks like" I can guess but I can't seem to get a clear answer. Is it that we don't need to repent? Is it that we don't need to be baptized in water? Is it that we don't have to give up fornication? What is it?
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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When it says " All Israel are not Israel Paul is telling ethnic Israel something . He is telling them that God has the right to choose whomever he wills to be among his covenant people. But he is not telling them this because God has chosen not to elect most of them. He’s telling them this because the paradigm for inclusion in the covenant people has shifted, from national Israel following the Law to anyone who comes to faith in Christ. Israel feels betrayed by this paradigm shift, so Paul explains that God has no obligation to the physical descendants of Abraham; rather, Paul demonstrates from the Old Testament that his relationship to Israel has always depended upon repentance.
That seems to be your false supposition, and not supported by the scriptures.
 

throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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Sounds to me like this is old two gospel "idea", one gospel for the Jews and different one for the rest.
Do you think its another Gospel they are preaching in Mathew , mark , Luke and John? After all they are not preaching the death , burial and resurrection.
Read luke 18 .
OK this is after they have already been preaching ' the Gospel ( good news ) of the kingdom.
now ask if that's the death, burial and resurrection ( the good news we have to believe)

31¶Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.

32For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:

33And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.

Well , well ,well . How could they have been preaching something they did not believe and or understand?
Heres their response ;

34¶And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.
 

throughfaith

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I guess I see it as any sin we do and not repent of we crucify him afresh. Heb 6:6 So any sin thats not repented of is the same as murder.
You'd be lost if you had to repent of every sin to be saved.
 

ForestGreenCook

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This depends on what you have decided that the whole Bible needs to harmonise on . For the Catholics its Peter and " on this Rock " .
For SDA its the sabbath and the law
For Jehovah witnesses its the two groups the Earthly class and the 144.000 .
For Calvinists its John 6 and them being the ' elect ' .
Scripture proves scripture, if they do not harmonize, then you are not understanding the truth contained in the gospel.
 
May 29, 2020
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If it is, I have yet to hear what his "gospel for the rest of us looks like" I can guess but I can't seem to get a clear answer. Is it that we don't need to repent? Is it that we don't need to be baptized in water? Is it that we don't have to give up fornication? What is it?
The "rest of us gospel" is the one that Paul and other the other apostles preached. Paul stated he believed and preached from the law and prophets:

Acts 24:14 “But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect I do serve the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets.
 

laymen

Senior Member
Apr 6, 2014
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You'd be lost if you had to repent of every sin to be saved.
When one Knows to do right and does not do it that sir is sin. So if I forgot about something there is still grace. I can still ask for forgiveness for those things I do not see or remember.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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Ok your over generalising . All scripture is relevant. Ok does that help ? The point is we are to understand it .
What are we do do about scripture addressed to Israel? That is the question. If it is addressed to Israel are we to understand it is also for us or are we excluded from butting in or listening to that conversation? I don't think that answer is unimportant or generalizing.
 

throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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The "rest of us gospel" is the one that Paul and other the other apostles preached. Paul stated he believed and preached from the law and prophets:

Acts 24:14 “But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect I do serve the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets.
Of course . Paul was given revelation from no man but Jesus. He was given the understanding and the mysteries. Isnt it a luxury to be able to look back like WE now can .
 

throughfaith

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When one Knows to do right and does not do it that sir is sin. So if I forgot about something there is still grace. I can still ask for forgiveness for those things I do not see or remember.
You must be busy. I see it as offending the one who already dealt with your sins if you believe. its disobedience.Imagine not believing what your creator already did for you ?
 

ForestGreenCook

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Of course . Paul was given revelation from no man but Jesus. He was given the understanding and the mysteries. Isnt it a luxury to be able to look back like WE now can .
You still seem to have a problem with the mystery of it.
 
May 29, 2020
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Do you think its another Gospel they are preaching in Mathew , mark , Luke and John? After all they are not preaching the death , burial and resurrection.
Read luke 18 .
OK this is after they have already been preaching ' the Gospel ( good news ) of the kingdom.
now ask if that's the death, burial and resurrection ( the good news we have to believe)
The gospel message "evolved", the law and prophets predicted the death, burial and resurrection - even Christ spoke of this death:

Matt 26:2 “You know that after two days the Passover is coming, and the Son of Man is to be handed over for crucifixion.”

Jesus said the disciples knew. Whether that was relayed in the gospel message the disciples went out with we can't specifically say as the gospels are not totally inclusive of all that happened during that time. We can speculate on what is not said, but that's all it will ever be speculation
 
S

Scribe

Guest
Do you think its another Gospel they are preaching in Mathew , mark , Luke and John? After all they are not preaching the death , burial and resurrection.
Read luke 18 .
OK this is after they have already been preaching ' the Gospel ( good news ) of the kingdom.
now ask if that's the death, burial and resurrection ( the good news we have to believe)

31¶Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.

32For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:

33And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.

Well , well ,well . How could they have been preaching something they did not believe and or understand?
It was a progressive revelation from Good News about the promises in the prophets to a fuller understanding of what those promises meant as they simply believed and followed the commands of Jesus. Now we see in hindsight more of the details of the Gospel that said he would open the prison for those bound.

They believed it was true and preached it as they knew Jesus was the one who was sent to open the prison for those that were bound, and then they learned more about how the prison doors of bondage to sin was broken through being born again and given a new nature filled with the Holy Spirit.

Just because they did not realize how the cross would accomplish this until later does not mean it was not the same Gospel

To preach that Jesus came to set the captive free before the cross and yet still preach that Jesus came to set the captive free after the cross having more understanding but it is still the same message.

Progressive revelation does not make it two different Gospels. The Jews purpose was to bring forth the Holy Seed, the Messiah who would rule ALL NATIONS and who would save ALL men. This Church started with Jewish converts and were nevertheless the Church. Anyone who heard Peters message in Acts 2 and believed would have been saved. Peter having learned this in Cornelius house was a record of how he learned it but the invitation was to all that feared God from any nation, before Peter had his vision and his day of revelation to this truth. The invitation did not start when Peter understood it. The invitation started already and Peter slowly caught on with God's help. Paul understood it from scriptures which Peter should have but Peter needed extra help.

The fact that the disciples were slow to learn does not mean there was another way of salvation presented later after Acts 2.
 

laymen

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Apr 6, 2014
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You must be busy. I see it as offending the one who already dealt with your sins if you believe. its disobedience.Imagine not believing what your creator already did for you ?
If praying a lot is busy then? 1 thess :17 tells me its not busy but normal
 

laymen

Senior Member
Apr 6, 2014
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You must be busy. I see it as offending the one who already dealt with your sins if you believe. its disobedience.Imagine not believing what your creator already did for you ?
Do you believe in Once saved always saved? that would ex-plane your understanding.