John 15 What is it about ?

The giving of the Holy Spirit to men is for two reasons. (i) So that they can partake of the divine LIFE of God. This is given INTERNALLY and is given when Christ was glorified in resurrection (Jn,7:39, 20:22). It adds the divine element to man's nature. (ii) So that they have POWER for ministry (Lk.24:49, Act.1:8). This is given OUTWARDLY like a uniform is given to a policeman. The Greek word means "furnished".

It is the same Holy Spirit, but He achieves two different tasks. The one is LIFE and it is given INTO the human spirit at rebirth (Jn.3:6). The other is POWER to do the work of God and is given outwardly. One is the Spirit "IN" you, and one is the Spirit "UPON" you. One was given when God approved Christ's sacrifice by resurrecting Christ, and the other was given on a Day when God's people had gathered for Pentecost. One is TO PRODUCE FRUIT, and one is for HARVESTING FRUIT. One is for BELIEVERS, one is for SERVANTS. One makes SONS of God, the other equips SERVANTS of God. The Spirit came UPON Balaam, but was never IN him. The Spirit was IN the "believers" of Ephesus (Act.19), but not UPON them (until they had the correct Baptism).

In regards to John 15, Greek scholar AT Robertson points out that there are two kinds of connections with Christ as the vine (the merely cosmic which bears no fruit, the spiritual and vital which bears fruit). Probably (Bernard) Jesus here refers to Judas..

https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/robertsons-word-pictures/john/john-15.html

I do not see John 20 .22 as anything but the Spirit coming UPON them. Not indwelling them as in Acts 2 .If I'm understanding you ? It looks like you see it in reverse ?

If I've understood you . I would disagree that the Spirit was in them ( Acts 19 ) . They had not recieved the Holy Spirit ( As in Acts 2 ) until Paul laid hands on them .
6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Interestingly it looks like again you see it the opposite way round?

I have read all your replies and noted them. I will answer in one posting, but not in the order you posted.

First, let's deal with the "seal" of the Holy Spirit. This "SEAL" appears in three scriptures. They are;
2nd Corinthians 1:22 "Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts."
Ephesians 1:13 "In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,"
Ephesians 4:30 "And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption."

They all refer to the same thing. In God's recovery of man, four things must be "saved". They are;

1. A man has the sin-nature and subsequently commits sins or trespasses. God is offended and He must retaliate justly. The wages of sin is DEATH (Rom.6:23). If the man is not saved by Somebody else paying for him, he is doomed.
2. God put man in front of the Tree of Life so that man could eat God and be intrinsically and organically one with God's LIFE and NATURE. Since God is a Spirit, this "eating" only happens in the human spirit (Jn.3:6). For the spirit of man to do the job it was intended for, a man must be born again
3. The sin-nature has polluted man totally (Gen.6:5). He only, and continuously, thinks, feels and decides to do evil. His SOUL must be transformed to be like that of Jesus. The SOUL needs to be saved (1st Pet.1:3-9)
4. Because the wages of sin is death, and all men are headed for death, the body needs to be resurrected. The Body needs to be redeemed and saved

All three scripture above refer to the BODY. At rebirth, only the spirit is reborn (Jn.3:6). The soul needs years of dealing to change in character (2nd Cor.3:18). But the "redemption" of the BODY is still future - at the coming of the Lord (1st Cor.15:23; 1st Thess.4:13-18). So we have no PROOF of resurrection - only HOPE. These three scriptures show that the Holy Spirit, Who dwells in our human spirits, is the "GUARANTEE of the resurrection of the BODY. The word "earnest" means "guarantee", and the word "sealed" means it has the official stamp of God as GUARANTOR. In all the centuries past, and still today, a king has a stamp, or seal exclusive to Him. He usually seals a document with his instructions with wax and then presses the "SEAL" into the hot wax so that everybody knows that this is OFFICIAL.

The Holy Spirit, when He comes into our human spirits, enlivens it with God's life and nature, then starts to change, or transform the SOUL, and is the guarantee for the future salvation, redemption and/or changing of our corrupt bodies. It has nothing to do with the salvation process of the body, EXCEPT TO GUARANTEE IT.

Next, I will post the scriptures concerning the INNER LIFE and the OUTER POWER.

Resurrection day - John 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be IN you."

On resurrection day our Lord breathed out of Himself INTO the disciples. It was "breath". Breath goes INTO the lungs for LIFE.

Pentecost -
Acts 2:17 "And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams"
Acts 1:8 "But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: ... ."

On Pentecost the Holy Spirit "filled" (pleroo - Gk.) the room inside, but "filled" (Pletho - Gk.) the Disciples outwardly. The child fell into the mud-puddle and was FULL of mud (outwardly - Pletho - Gk.)

So also with Jesus. He had the LIFE of God IN Him from birth (Matt.1:18, Lk.1:35), but only AFTER His Baptism did it come UPON Him:-

John 1:32-33;
32 "And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost."

Would you say that its talking about the disciples specifically and that its before they are indwelt by the Holy Spirit and baptised into the body of christ ?

John 20
¶Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

20And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.

21¶Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soe
This is not the of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost; here they “receive” the Holy Ghost as anyone in the Old Testament did (see Dan. 5:11; Gen. 41:38; Exod. 31:2–3). He comes in them to permanently INDWELL them (see John 14:16). Later a transaction takes place that could not take place here (John 20:22), for here Christ has no BODY for them to enter (see 1 Cor. 12:13, which answers the prayer of John 17

If we forget everything any man has said about these scriptures and just listen and believe what they say, if we become fully the Lord's vine, we will have fruits. If we don't have any fruits, then something is wrong.

We are told what those fruits are in Galatians 5:22-23. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control.

Again you have not addressed my points. Again you pit one scripture against another. Again you have said what it is not. OK. That is your right. And it is clear that you object. But now, please, give some solid exegesis on the difference between resurrection day, and Pentecost.

Again you have not addressed my points. Again you pit one scripture against another. Again you have said what it is not. OK. That is your right. And it is clear that you object. But now, please, give some solid exegesis on the difference between resurrection day, and Pentecost.

Your language is difficult for me. How do we "become" the Lord's Vine if we are already the branches. And it was already established branches that did not bring forth fruit. Why? And if we automatically bring forth fruit, why the warning and the threat?

Does John 15 teach that you can forfeit salvation ?

1¶I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

3Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5¶I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

7If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

8Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

9¶As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

10If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

11¶These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

12This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

So we have no PROOF of resurrection - only HOPE.

Could it be because this is before the giving of the Holy Spirit ?

Does John 15 teach that you can forfeit salvation ?

1¶I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

3Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5¶I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

7If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

8Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

9¶As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

10If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

11¶These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

12This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

Again you have not addressed my points. Again you pit one scripture against another. Again you have said what it is not. OK. That is your right. And it is clear that you object. But now, please, give some solid exegesis on the difference between resurrection day, and Pentecost.

According to Matthew 7:21-23 it appears that there will be many who will have thought they did the will of God in heaven, but to whom Christ will profess his never having known them. Although, if Christ had never known this group of individuals, then they don't exactly qualify for those branches which at some point did abide in Christ whom Christ would have known, but then later did not abide in Christ, and would be cast out along with the group whom Christ never knew.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Well since you are over here now, asking the same questions, I will answer over here:

Your proof texts do not argue against Regeneration throughout the ages:

1 Peter 1:3, is not talking about "Regeneration".
Titus 3:5, proves it is an "Active" work of God upon the "PASSIVE" sinner.

“Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit;” This verse clearly teaches, 1) It is not of us. 2) It is His mercy being demonstrated. 3) The means is by Regeneration. 4) through the renewing of ones mind.

John 7:39 “(But this spoke he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given ; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)” The Lord here, is again making reference to the Spirit coming in the role of the Comforter to empower the assembly members. In the KJ version, the word "given" is a supplied word and not in the text. The meaning is, that the Holy Spirit was "not yet" doing this particular office because the Saviour was still with them. You can't have both performing the same role.

This has nothing to do with the "New Birth". Certainly John 3:1-10, is not being discussed as a future event. It is being discussed as a present event.

John 3:8 The Spirit (πνευμα, spirit, wind, breath), is moving where He wills, and you are hearing (φωνην, present active indictive- voice, sound, noise), the sound thereof, but cannot not tell from where He comes (present passive indicative) , and where He is going: so is every one that has been born of the Spirit.

Here is the irrefutable clincher and where the Greek helps so much: The Greek word translated "BORN", is γεγεννημενος, it is a PERFECT Active Indicative verb. The "Perfect" tense is only found in the Greek, the English has no such tense. Being a "perfect", it means that this action - "born", began in the past, with continuing results, right on out to eternity. The perfect is often used in Scripture for things like: "It stands written" (usually translated as just "written"). But it means, it was written, it is now written and forever will be written. The perfect tense verbs, usually denote actions that are related to God and his Word are Works and not man.

It is about you and I, being Christians, needing to abide in the vine. Some will turn away and refuse to repent. This is apostacy. It happens.

John
6:66 From that [time] many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
6:69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

Well since you are over here now, asking the same questions, I will answer over here:

Your proof texts do not argue against Regeneration throughout the ages:

1 Peter 1:3, is not talking about "Regeneration".
Titus 3:5, proves it is an "Active" work of God upon the "PASSIVE" sinner.

“Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit;” This verse clearly teaches, 1) It is not of us. 2) It is His mercy being demonstrated. 3) The means is by Regeneration. 4) through the renewing of ones mind.

John 7:39 “(But this spoke he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given ; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)” The Lord here, is again making reference to the Spirit coming in the role of the Comforter to empower the assembly members. In the KJ version, the word "given" is a supplied word and not in the text. The meaning is, that the Holy Spirit was "not yet" doing this particular office because the Saviour was still with them. You can't have both performing the same role.

This has nothing to do with the "New Birth". Certainly John 3:1-10, is not being discussed as a future event. It is being discussed as a present event.

John 3:8 The Spirit (πνευμα, spirit, wind, breath), is moving where He wills, and you are hearing (φωνην, present active indictive- voice, sound, noise), the sound thereof, but cannot not tell from where He comes (present passive indicative) , and where He is going: so is every one that has been born of the Spirit.

Here is the irrefutable clincher and where the Greek helps so much: The Greek word translated "BORN", is γεγεννημενος, it is a PERFECT Active Indicative verb. The "Perfect" tense is only found in the Greek, the English has no such tense. Being a "perfect", it means that this action - "born", began in the past, with continuing results, right on out to eternity. The perfect is often used in Scripture for things like: "It stands written" (usually translated as just "written"). But it means, it was written, it is now written and forever will be written. The perfect tense verbs, usually denote actions that are related to God and his Word are Works and not man.