Peter before he received the Holy Ghost...or Peter after he received the Holy Ghost

Are you more like Peter BEFORE he received the Holy Ghost... or AFTER? Do you really know what the difference is? (can you verbalize it?) And do you have the same thing Peter has? Would you have the courage to admit it if you don't?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Before we recieve the Holy Spirit we are hell bound ,lost without hope ,strangers and without God . Eph 2.11-13 .

The difference is the level of understanding Peter had of the Gospel.. Before Peter did not have all the information.. But once the Holy Spirit indwelled him he clearly understood what the Gospel meant..

I am both.
I can be brash and speak out w/o thinking but if I would just bring the flesh under subjection to the Holy Ghost, then my speech would be true and effective under his power!

I agree with your statement and scripture reference, but the Holy Spirit has several functions, The Holy Spirit functions as a quickening Spirit to bring spiritual life to a person, Eph 2:5. He also functions as the Holy Ghost, a comforter and revelator to a person that has been quickened to spiritual life, John 14:26. The Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost are one in the same, with different functions.

There is also the difference between being given eternal life having been indwelt by the Holy Spirit and being empowered after salvation. Eg.. the Holy Spirit coming 'upon' is different to initial salvation.

Like in Acts 2, the cloven tongues and the Holy Spirit coming upon the disciples. I would make the case the disciples were indwelt before then.

Were those in Acts 11 indwelt prior ?

16Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

17Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

18¶When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

initially we have a promise , salvation is the end reward , now we have a promise that is worded the way Jesus worded it “ repent and believe the gospel and be baptized and be saved “

we have to acknowledge what he said about it to understand and receive salvation repentance by faith in his word , the remission of our sins through Jesus blood shed .

repentance comes with acknowledging the truth of Christ’s word and it’s necessary for salvation because sin is service to the devils will

“And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:24-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the truth of gospel is freedom from that captivity

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭

The objective is not to be like Peter but to be like Christ. We all strive until we are fully sanctified.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Wattie is correct. The Holy Spirit is given to men in two ways.

1. INTERNALLY, so that man can partake of the divine life and make him (a) able to display God in his disposition, and (b) a "help" or "companion" up to the standard of his Bridegroom, Jesus. The Tree of Life is for this and it is the main theme of John's gospel (Jn.20:30-31)
2. EXTERNALLY so that man has the power to do things a mere man cannot. Man is given the duty of subduing and ruling the earth. This brings him into conflict with powers greater than a mere man, e.g. angels. Man is made lower than the angels, but after being "FURNISHED" with the Holy Spirit, he can, through God's power, prevail. God divided the languages at Babel. The Roman Church and Islam must solve this in a human way by choosing one language (Latin and Arabic). God solves it by superhuman power - tongues. Samson's strength comes from being "FURNISHED" with the Holy Spirit. Baalam's donkey speaks briefly but remains a donkey. The prophets of old proposed by this "FURNISHING" of the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is given AS LIFE on resurrection day after the Lord had ascended to the Father and presented His blood (Jn.20:16: Heb.9:11-12). In John 20:22 our Lord breathed the Holy Spirit INTO His disciples. Breath is for LIFE. It is also the same word in the Greek as "spirit". Fifty days later, accompanied by prayer and unity of purpose, in obedience to the Lord, the disciples were "FURNISHED" (lit. Gk.) with the Holy Spirit FOR POWER (Lk.24:49: Act.1:8).

The events at the house of Cornelius is explained thus: The INDWELLING Holy Spirit cannot be seen. A man is born-again and receives this Holy Spirit when he believes in and confesses Jesus Christ. There is, at first, no outward change. Peter had no way of knowing if the Roman HAD LIFE or not. So God, to show that they had received LIFE, gave the Holy Spirit EXTERNALLY so that Peter, and all men after that, would not doubt that God had gone to the Gentiles, and they had believed (Act.11:17).

Totally wrong. The Holy Spirit is given only one time. It is a Spiritual baptism unto eternal life. Dead in sin now alive eternally in Christ.

Your view abuses the power aspects of the Holy Spirit in the life of a believer.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

We don't agree on this point of course . The Holy Spirit is given once . Its dangerous to get doctrine from a transitional book . This belief of two separate experiences causes much confusion, doubt and harm to the believer . Including my own early walk with the Lord when i was subject to this ' second blessing 'For empowerment , teaching .

Your reply is read and noted.

Your objection without counter argument is read and noted.

'doctrine from a transitional book' is the counter. Thats not rightly dividing . Doctrine for the body is found in Paul's letters.

My esteemed opposers in this matter of the ESSENTIAL Spirit and the ECONOMIC* Spirit have objected, yet offered the reader no reason or cohesive counter-argument. So, in favour of the interested reader, let us examine, briefly, four cases, and you decide. I build upon my posting # 10. The Christian is saved for TWO things, both given in Genesis 1:26-28. They are;

1. To be in the image and likeness of God. To do this he must possess the nature of God. His ESSENCE must be BOTH humanity and divinity. 2nd Peter 1:4 assures us that we have been made partakers of the divine nature through the promises attached to "life and godliness".
2. To subdue, and then rule the earth, its environs of sea and sky, and all their contents. Facing man was a formidable task. A set of Principalities made of angels and demons, both vastly superior to man, were arrayed against him. Our Lord Jesus Himself, must cast out demons, not with His power, but with "the finger of God". Added to this, man was given the task of building God's House. In 1st Corinthians and Ephesians we see that the power to do this is endowed by the Holy Spirit.

Case 1. Jesus Christ.
Born of the Holy Spirit (Matt.1:18; Lk.1:35), our Lord Jesus possessed the ESSENCE of God from conception. 30 years later, after he rose out of the waters of Baptism, the Holy Spirit came UPON Him and He went forth in POWER for God's ECONOMY* (Lk.4:14).

Case 2. Peter in Acts 2:38
Peter presents Israel's sin on Pentecost and some 3,000 were convicted. They ask what they shall do. Peter's answer is that they should "repent". "Repent" means to turn 180 degrees from a certain course. Their course was UNBELIEF in Jesus as the Christ. Thus, their first step was FAITH. According to both John 1:12-13 and 3:14-16 this faith issues in a man being BORN of God and HAVING the LIFE of God. But the instruction goes further. They are to be Baptised, which, is exactly what our Lord Jesus did in Case 1. The result of this IMMERSION in WATER would be that they RECEIVED the Holy Spirit, not as LIFE but as a GIFT.

Case 3. The House of Cornelius - Acts 10
Peter refuses to approach the Gentiles. God sends a vision that makes it clear that the Gentiles who He has chosen were CLEAN. We are made CLEAN by (i) the Word, and (ii) the blood of Jesus. These are to had only by faith. Added to this, in his defence before the Jews, in Chapter 11:14, Peter was to speak unto "salvation". But Peter cannot see faith nor salvation. He has proven reluctant to be sen with the Gentiles. So God pours the Spirit upon Cornelius and his house AS AT PENTECOST. Peter realises that the matter is of the Lord and hastens to Baptise the household. Cornelius and his house BELIEVED in God, BELIEVED Peter's gospel, which causes a man to HAVE the Spirit as LIFE (Jn.20:30-31), and then a second event takes place where Cornelius and his house show that which happened at Pentecost - the supernatural ability to speak in a foreign tongue.

Case 4. Ephesus in Acts 19
Apollos teaches in Ephesus. But he knows only the Baptism of John. Men "believe" (verse 1). They are called "disciples" (verse 2) by the Holy Spirit. According to John 1:12-13, 3:14-16 and 20:30-31 they are children of God, and possess eternal life - the LIFE and NATURE of God. But their Baptism is inadequate. It is John's name. Paul suspects the cause immediately. They are Baptised, as Peter commanded in Acts 2:38 and receive the Holy Spirit as it was given on Pentecost. BELIEVING guarantees receiving the LIFE, NATURE AND ESSENCE of God, and Baptism in Jesus' name grants them a GIFT for power for ministry. They are twelve. Twelve is the number of God's People. This sequence is valid for ALL of God's People.

In four distinct cases FAITH brings the Holy Spirit as God's ESSENCE, and in a second event, TIED TO BAPTISM in Jesus' Name, the Holy Spirit is given for POWER to fulfil God's ECONOMY*

* The Greek for God's plan is "Oikonomia". It means "household management". The sense is of a mother in the kitchen dispensing food to her family. We derive the word ECONOMY from it - the way the State dispenses of taxes for the profit of the people. It is strictly, the "ECONOMIC BUDGET". God's DISPENSATION is to DISPENSE the Holy Spirit INTO man (John 14) for LIFE, and DISPENSE the Holy Spirit UPON men for POWER.

I refuse your reason. The Church is found in Matthew 16 and 18, and Christ's BODY in John Chapter 2 already. Added to this, the word "Disciples" is strewn throughout the gospels AND ACTS. If "disciples" are believers in the Acts, they are believers in the whole New Testament. "Disciples" are always in OPPOSITION and CONTRAST to the Jews and the Gentiles. In John 20 they are called "MY (Christ's) BRETHREN". One cannot be a brother of Jesus Christ without being born from the same Father. Likewise, the so-called "Sermon on the Mount" at the very beginning of the gospels (Matt.5, 6 & 7), it is "OUR Father", "MY Father" and "YOUR Father", indicating that the rebirth was an accomplished fact already.

Yes we are not talking about a second experience of salvation but the Holy Spirit empowering

When does the new testament begin ?

Well, what about if it was put this way-

One time event of indwelling for receiving eternal life..

Then the Holy Spirit empowered believers in churches in another role.. eg. 'in the midst' 'upon'

The empowerment not necessary as part of eternal life but part of the Holy Spirit blessing a believer