Lost Gospel of Evangelicalism

Why don'y you go back to the Bible itself for a precedent? And let's have the true and full Gospel presented (as understood by you).

According to the scriptures, a person's conversion needs three steps.

1. The Holy Spirit must work inside them to convince them of "sin and judgment" (Jn.16:8)
2. When the realization of their sins and impending judgment have worked, somebody has to tell of the way out (Rom.10:13-14)
3. When they believe, they must also confess what is in their heart (Rom.10:10-13)

The Holy Spirit convicts, and gives faith. The way out is told by a Christian. The person themself must believe and confess. If just ONE of these three are missing, there is no conversion (this time). Blik's table-mate seems to me not to be convicted. Whether you told or not, I judge that you would not have made a difference. This does not excuse a Christian from preaching the gospel, but an obviously aggressive, dismissive and/or abusive person is unlikely to have been convicted, and less likely to confess.

Has anyone else noticed this-- there are a number of pastors of churches and preachers on TV who do not preach about the cross, the atonement, or the resurrection of Christ, then tag a little schpeel on the end of their sermon that religion is a bad thing and we need a relationship, and declare people saved for repeating a prayer.

The prayer may involve people 'asking Jesus into your heart' without any explanation of Who Jesus is or what He did prior.

There is also this idea that 'receiving Christ' means to repeat a prayer after a preacher?

From what I have studied, the practice of confessing faith by means of a prayer either goes back to Billy Graham or wasn't widely practiced before his crusades. I have heard the assertion that if someone has not done this, he is not saved.

I recall decades ago, prayers based on Romans 10:9-10 where people would confess Jesus is Lord and their faith that God raised Him from the dead. Now a lot of these sinner's prayer rituals and the sermons that precede them often seem to be missing the Gospel message.

Sometimes the preacher tells the audience those that repeat the prayer that they are saved without telling them that Christ died for their sins or that He rose from the dead.

Has anyone else noticed this?

That practice was not made common by Billy Graham, it was Charles Finney. That method is called revivalism. But it comes from the teaching of John Wesley. I gave you that info so you can do se research on your own. It's quite interesting how the gospel was reduced to a sales pitch, and eventually the sales pitch didn't contain any gospel.

I think Finney sent people away to pr a y alone. So I have heard and/or read.

According to the scriptures, a person's conversion needs three steps.

1. The Holy Spirit must work inside them to convince them of "sin and judgment" (Jn.16:8)
2. When the realization of their sins and impending judgment have worked, somebody has to tell of the way out (Rom.10:13-14)
3. When they believe, they must also confess what is in their heart (Rom.10:10-13)

The Holy Spirit convicts, and gives faith. The way out is told by a Christian. The person themself must believe and confess. If just ONE of these three are missing, there is no conversion (this time). Blik's table-mate seems to me not to be convicted. Whether you told or not, I judge that you would not have made a difference. This does not excuse a Christian from preaching the gospel, but an obviously aggressive, dismissive and/or abusive person is unlikely to have been convicted, and less likely to confess.

Read up on revivalism.

Coming forward to the front may have been a similarity. Maybe the 'anxious seat.' This was likely a precursor to "the altar call.' I have not read about Finney having people repeat a prayer. Do you have a source for that?

Exodus 4:11
And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?

The LORD gives men the ability to speak. That does not make every word every man speaks into prophesying. Some people say some rather foolish things. We also speak words that aren't foolish, but aren't prophesying either. The donkey asked Balaam why he struck her. It does not say that the donkey spoke a 'thus saith the LORD' type message.

Christians rely so much on ' the work of the Holy Spirt ' to the detrement of actually preaching the Gospel.

Th
That is not what we see in the example of the Ethiopian.

Your counter is too brief for me to answer. Maybe you could expound on this event while comparing it to my statements. Then I can see your view and answer. Thanks.

You were close in your description of conversion.

But you were missing the Main Ingredient. The Lord Jesus Christ.

John 14:27 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.


Those prayers of salvation, or the sinners prayer, are not bad prayers. But like you pointed out you need to be convicted BY THE HOLY SPIRIT of your sin FIRST. Other hypocrites trying to convince you of your sin doesn't work.

This is where the Holy Spirit is bringing you; and THE required step of conversion.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

We only have a verse that says the Holy Spirit convicts of the ' sin ' ' because they believe not on Jesus ' . And not sure what you mean by " they must also confess what is in their heart " ? And " The Holy Spirit convicts, and gives faith. " ? Gives faith ?

Are we Christians because of the work of the Holy Spirit or because someone preaches the gospel?

Answer: Because of the work of the Holy Spirit.


Otherwise, you would find the preaching of the gospel to be nonsense.

John 16:7-8 says that when the Comforter comes - the Spirit of truth - He will, "... reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment." The next verse, verse 9 does not change the plain meaning of verse 8. It is the Holy Spirit which "reproves" the world of sin. Verse 9 gives the reason why the sin is there to be reproved. It is because not having believed in Jesus their sin remains.

When a man is converted, two things must be accomplished. (i) he must believe with his heart that Jesus is Who He claims to be, and (ii) the man must confess this out loud. A prime example of this is the Pharisees in Matthew 21. They knew who Jesus was - their King and Heir of the Vineyard Israel. But they did not admit it. The result? Planning to murder Him. A man must BOTH believe and confess out loud what is in his heart by faith.

In Ephesians 2:8 the grammar, in English and Greek, follows a rule. The last mentioned noun is modified by the pronoun. It reads;

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God"

The pronoun "that" modifies "faith", not "grace". The verse could have been formulated in two ways;

1. "For by faith are ye saved through grace; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God". Here, the "grace" was a GIFT
2. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God". Here, the "faith" was a GIFT

This is confirmed by Hebrews 12:2:

"Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God."

John 16:7-8 says that when the Comforter comes - the Spirit of truth - He will, "... reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment." The next verse, verse 9 does not change the plain meaning of verse 8. It is the Holy Spirit which "reproves" the world of sin. Verse 9 gives the reason why the sin is there to be reproved. It is because not having believed in Jesus their sin remains.

When a man is converted, two things must be accomplished. (i) he must believe with his heart that Jesus is Who He claims to be, and (ii) the man must confess this out loud. A prime example of this is the Pharisees in Matthew 21. They knew who Jesus was - their King and Heir of the Vineyard Israel. But they did not admit it. The result? Planning to murder Him. A man must BOTH believe and confess out loud what is in his heart by faith.

In Ephesians 2:8 the grammar, in English and Greek, follows a rule. The last mentioned noun is modified by the pronoun. It reads;

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God"

The pronoun "that" modifies "faith", not "grace". The verse could have been formulated in two ways;

1. "For by faith are ye saved through grace; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God". Here, the "grace" was a GIFT
2. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God". Here, the "faith" was a GIFT

This is confirmed by Hebrews 12:2:

"Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God."

John 16:7-8 says that when the Comforter comes - the Spirit of truth - He will, "... reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment." The next verse, verse 9 does not change the plain meaning of verse 8. It is the Holy Spirit which "reproves" the world of sin. Verse 9 gives the reason why the sin is there to be reproved. It is because not having believed in Jesus their sin remains.

When a man is converted, two things must be accomplished. (i) he must believe with his heart that Jesus is Who He claims to be, and (ii) the man must confess this out loud. A prime example of this is the Pharisees in Matthew 21. They knew who Jesus was - their King and Heir of the Vineyard Israel. But they did not admit it. The result? Planning to murder Him. A man must BOTH believe and confess out loud what is in his heart by faith.

In Ephesians 2:8 the grammar, in English and Greek, follows a rule. The last mentioned noun is modified by the pronoun. It reads;

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God"

The pronoun "that" modifies "faith", not "grace". The verse could have been formulated in two ways;

1. "For by faith are ye saved through grace; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God". Here, the "grace" was a GIFT
2. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God". Here, the "faith" was a GIFT

This is confirmed by Hebrews 12:2:

"Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God."

9Of sin, because they believe not on me;
This is what it says . Just ' because they believe not on me;'
Thats it .