Calvinists are preaching a false message .

I agree we have free will . I believe ' predestination ' is what happens after we become in Christ. We are then predestinated to certain glorification.

I think if you read it carefully, it's saying that the WHOLE WORLD or all of Mankind is predestined to reconcile with God via the blood of Jesus. In other words, God predestined a way for fallen mankind to be forgiven and received back into the fold of God's family. These translations do not always come off so well. For instance, the same word is used for Judging and condemning, we are in reality commanded to judge by God, but told never to condemn, for that is God's alone. So anytime someone says Oh, Don't judge, that is just a lie from Satan, trying to get the Church to accept sin.

We wouldn't even send our kids across the road without telling them to judge if a car is coming by looking both ways, let we aren't to judge others, it's just not the case. We are not to condemn anyone, I can't say you are hell boud, but I can say to someone, hey, you are cheating on your wife, you are a Christian, you know that you are wrong, those sins will separate you from God, you better tell your wife and repent. So, Judging, and Condemning are two different things, likewise, I see Paul speaking bout Predestination, and I know hes talking about our SALVATION has been predestinated, but not all people will of course accept that salvation.

God Bless

I admire how you worded your post, and I agree with it, but we are also instructed by scripture in 1 Pet 3:15, to always be ready to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear.

If God calls for all men everywhere to repent, can you explain to me...

Paul says we are predestined to the Adoption. According to Romans 8.23 when is the adoption?

Verse 23 speaks about the "ADOPTION" we have carnal minds because of the fall of mankind, we need to take on Christ and the Spirit is our guide to lead us unto all truths. But what Paul is saying in verse 29 and 30, is that God gave us a way back from the curse of Adam, via the "PREDESTINATED SACRIFICE" of Jess who was slain before the foundations of the world [ever existed] says the book of Revelation. WATCH HOW I DELINIATE THESE FACTS:

Rom. 8:29 For whom he did foreknow(WeLl, God FOREKNOWS all and all things), he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son (Do you GET IT ? God Predestined EVERYONE to be CONFORMED unto Jess Christ with the simple ASKING), that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also calledGod calls EVERY MAN, the bible says so) and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified(God justified us in Jesus Christ), them he also glorified.

The problem is people do not look at other verses to confirm the bible. God states that he would not that ANY SHOULD PERISH, thus God calls all men unto him, and Pau is saying here, God predestined all mankind to be purged from their evil sin nature via the flood of Jesus Christ, then God who foreknew mankind would need to be purged, sent his son to be that once and for all Sacrificial Lamb, whereby all who receive this PURGING can thus be glorified in Christ Jesus.

They wrote these passages in Greek, then translated them into Old English[e]. I understand the KJV style, so it doesn't trip me up, but the reason is I goo about confirming these truths elsewhere in the bible, the essence of the bible shows God could never Predestinate people to Heaven or Hell and be a just God, BUT he could PREDESTINATE a Sacrificial Lamb for us all. So, I know what it means. Likewise, Daniel 7:11 says the Beast will DIE and then be cast into hellfire but Rev. 19:20 says the Beast will be CAST ALIVE into hell, so what gives? Well, Dan. 7:11 says the Beat will be killed and his body Destroyed, THAT IS PRETTY SPECIFIC, so reading Rev. 19:20, I can read between the lines, we know that ALL MEN (even the Anti-Christ/Beast must die one and be JUDGED, he has that right also. In this instance, he is killed, BUT he is never allowed to go to the Grave and sleep, he is cast STRAIGHT INTO HELL, Alive because our Souls never die. So, he is never given the chance to rest in a grave as all the others who will be judged in 1000 years at the Second Resurrection. This is how you gave to look at the bible, you have to work these things out. God did not predestine some to Heaven and some to hell, Paul is saying God predestined us all to be reconciled, but its up to us to ACCEPT the pardon !! Amen.

It could not be any more simple.
God holds everyone responsible. Response - able . Jesus Marvels at peoples ' unbelief ' . God commands all men everywhere to repent. It could not be clearer that Jesus died for all and that all can respond positively to the Gospel.
But Calvinism teaches the exact opposite to the bible . This is a serious issue . One in which should concern us ,as the popularity of Calvinism is currently at its peak ..
What say you?

Verse 23 speaks about the "ADOPTION" we have carnal minds because of the fall of mankind, we need to take on Christ and the Spirit is our guide to lead us unto all truths. But what Paul is saying in verse 29 and 30, is that God gave us a way back from the curse of Adam, via the "PREDESTINATED SACRIFICE" of Jess who was slain before the foundations of the world [ever existed] says the book of Revelation. WATCH HOW I DELINIATE THESE FACTS:

Rom. 8:29 For whom he did foreknow(WeLl, God FOREKNOWS all and all things), he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son (Do you GET IT ? God Predestined EVERYONE to be CONFORMED unto Jess Christ with the simple ASKING), that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also calledGod calls EVERY MAN, the bible says so) and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified(God justified us in Jesus Christ), them he also glorified.

The problem is people do not look at other verses to confirm the bible. God states that he would not that ANY SHOULD PERISH, thus God calls all men unto him, and Pau is saying here, God predestined all mankind to be purged from their evil sin nature via the flood of Jesus Christ, then God who foreknew mankind would need to be purged, sent his son to be that once and for all Sacrificial Lamb, whereby all who receive this PURGING can thus be glorified in Christ Jesus.

They wrote these passages in Greek, then translated them into Old English[e]. I understand the KJV style, so it doesn't trip me up, but the reason is I goo about confirming these truths elsewhere in the bible, the essence of the bible shows God could never Predestinate people to Heaven or Hell and be a just God, BUT he could PREDESTINATE a Sacrificial Lamb for us all. So, I know what it means. Likewise, Daniel 7:11 says the Beast will DIE and then be cast into hellfire but Rev. 19:20 says the Beast will be CAST ALIVE into hell, so what gives? Well, Dan. 7:11 says the Beat will be killed and his body Destroyed, THAT IS PRETTY SPECIFIC, so reading Rev. 19:20, I can read between the lines, we know that ALL MEN (even the Anti-Christ/Beast must die one and be JUDGED, he has that right also. In this instance, he is killed, BUT he is never allowed to go to the Grave and sleep, he is cast STRAIGHT INTO HELL, Alive because our Souls never die. So, he is never given the chance to rest in a grave as all the others who will be judged in 1000 years at the Second Resurrection. This is how you gave to look at the bible, you have to work these things out. God did not predestine some to Heaven and some to hell, Paul is saying God predestined us all to be reconciled, but its up to us to ACCEPT the pardon !! Amen.

so it's a breakaway from the Catholic church ?

It starts with Augustine.

so it's a breakaway from the Catholic church ?

so, man's church for man ?

He takes his philosophy of 'Gnosticism ' and blends it with christianity . Determinism and his take on 'original sin '.

ok, well, I don't know much about that.

Two great short books on this areb:https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00160XJY2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_imm_t1_9yT-FbWNRQ73F

And https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/108280035X/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_imm_t1_3AT-FbMRA2561

They are only thin books , but they are fantastic .

How has something so popular yet false become a ' respected ' theological position within christianity?

It could not be any more simple.
God holds everyone responsible. Response - able . Jesus Marvels at peoples ' unbelief ' . God commands all men everywhere to repent. It could not be clearer that Jesus died for all and that all can respond positively to the Gospel.
But Calvinism teaches the exact opposite to the bible . This is a serious issue . One in which should concern us ,as the popularity of Calvinism is currently at its peak ..
What say you?

How many primary or original source books and papers have you read to come to your conclusions? Like Calvin and Zwingli, Martin Luther, and later Reformers? Where did you get your false ideas about Reformed believers? Made them Up? Maybe read some books by some Arminians on Reformers, who don't know much either.

I hope you realize why the Reformation happened. It was the Catholic Church was hierarchal, totally corrupt, and their theology
Was wrong! Salvation by church rites and rituals.

Martin Luther, a monk and doctor of the church, tried to change the church from within. He read.the Bible on his own, in Latin or Greek, and stubbled upon:

Romans 5:1. "Therefore, since we have been declared righteous by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ," (NET) or:

"Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ," Romans 5:1 - (NASB).

The Catholic Church salvation was through indulgences sold, masses bought for the dead, and the 7 sacraments. Zwingli and Calvin followed, and devised systems which were Biblical that broke the chains of RCC had burdened people with.

For this alone, the Reformers should be admired. God called them, and they heeded that call.

The whole idea of being Reformed or Calvinist. (There is a big difference between them. Do you know what that is?) is following the Bible. And preaching the gospel to "all" of the world is part of that work. Jonathan Edwards and George Whitfield were both Reformed evangelists. They were a major part of the Great Awakening in
the 1700 hundreds.

You see, God is not going to save everyone. I hope you will agree with me, that not everyone will be saved. God knows all our destinies! But we do not! So, we have to share the gospel to everyone, so the Holy Spirit can save all those God called before the foundation of the earth. We are partners with God, in bringing souls to Christ!

Jacobus Arminius was a lot closer to Calvin in his theology, than later Reform leaders, and Arminian leaders!

So, you need to read some books by RC Sproule, or James Boice and others, to find out what they believe before you keep on saying things about Reformers, which they never believed. I always attended Arminian churches, for the first 20 years I was saved. I also read my Bible almost every day during that time. I began to see discrepancies between my NASB and the weak sermons being preached. We changed churches and found real preaching, based on the Bible. So much that we left our Arminian/dispensationalism church, and were introduced to excellent preaching, really understanding what the passage was about/exegesis, instead of topical sermons, with the verses added after. That is eisegesis!

God called me to seminary, where I learned about eternal security. And everything was based on the Bible. Then I met some Reformed people who taught me using the Bible, truths never talked about in Arminian churches. It was very freeing to finally know that God would not leave or forsake me, instead of being afraid I had displeased God, and he would cast me out of the Kingdom of God. Instead, I was able to do so much more for God, not moving in fear, including working as a Chaplain in LTC.

I had a book by Sproule on theology. I could not agree with double predestination. RC explained very clearly what it meant, and it was exactly what I had believed for many years. I was against a Reformed doctrine which was actually a hyperCalvinistic doctrine instead.

So, time for you to back up, go to original or primary sources and read what a Reformed or Calvinist person really believes about doctrine. It's humbling to find that you were against something that wasn't even what they believed!

You have a great deal of private interpretation there . Like I asked before. We are predestinated to the Adoption after we believe. Look at Rom 8.23 and ask when ' the adoption ' is ? Then ask when are we conformed to his image. Calvinism thinks we are adopted and conformed at conversion . But the bible says its when we recieve the redemption of the BODY ..This is called THE ADOPTION. Let's avoid word salads and private interpretation.
23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

And its slain FROM not before the foundation. Unless your reading the calvinist ES VERSION handbook .

Jesus is prophesied' slain from the foundation ' in Gen 3.15

That's what it means . Jesus was actually crucified 2000 years ago .

I think if you read it carefully, it's saying that the WHOLE WORLD or all of Mankind is predestined to reconcile with God via the blood of Jesus. In other words, God predestined a way for fallen mankind to be forgiven and received back into the fold of God's family. These translations do not always come off so well. For instance, the same word is used for Judging and condemning, we are in reality commanded to judge by God, but told never to condemn, for that is God's alone. So anytime someone says Oh, Don't judge, that is just a lie from Satan, trying to get the Church to accept sin.

We wouldn't even send our kids across the road without telling them to judge if a car is coming by looking both ways, let we aren't to judge others, it's just not the case. We are not to condemn anyone, I can't say you are hell boud, but I can say to someone, hey, you are cheating on your wife, you are a Christian, you know that you are wrong, those sins will separate you from God, you better tell your wife and repent. So, Judging, and Condemning are two different things, likewise, I see Paul speaking bout Predestination, and I know hes talking about our SALVATION has been predestinated, but not all people will of course accept that salvation.

God Bless