What makes a scientific claim?

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What makes a scientific claim?

  • A claim to "follow the science" or "the science is settled"

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • A claim on the news

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • A claim you can see

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • A claim that is documented

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  • Total voters
    6
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EleventhHour

Guest
#21
Material testing is somewhat of a different case.
Exactly.

That is an area that is very observable, but compare that to the medical sciences and I can tell you in that field of clinical research it is hit and miss and many drugs are discovered by accident.

As well, sadly, data can be reported falsely.
 

jennymae

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2020
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#22
Having a PhD in law is kind of frustrating at times. A judge or jurors, who hasn’t been anywhere near that level, can with one hand behind his or her back shoot your scientifically founded arguments down just by SAYING SO!🤦‍♀️😂
 

GaryA

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Aug 10, 2019
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#23
The scientific method has not changed much --- but, the actual use of it has been in sharp decline for decades... :eek: o_O :censored: :rolleyes:
 
Mar 4, 2020
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#24
Having a PhD in law is kind of frustrating at times. A judge or jurors, who hasn’t been anywhere near that level, can with one hand behind his or her back shoot your scientifically founded arguments down just by SAYING SO!🤦‍♀️😂
That's because expert witnesses are a thing. You have a high degree in law, but that doesn't qualify you to hold an authoritative opinion about anything outside the scope of your degree, especially in a court room, even if the expert witness is at a lower degree level than you.
 

T_Laurich

Senior Member
Mar 24, 2013
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#25
Wait until he meets a juror that understands and uses Jury Nullification.

He will really be mad on that one :ROFL:
 

jennymae

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2020
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#26
That's because expert witnesses are a thing. You have a high degree in law, but that doesn't qualify you to hold an authoritative opinion about anything outside the scope of your degree, especially in a court room, even if the expert witness is at a lower degree level than you.
Haha, don’t you worry none, it was just meant to show how jurisprudence, contrary to, say, astrophysics, has boundaries founded on a layman element in court cases.

I’m aware that the counter argument is that astrophysics has not, at any stage or level, a possibility of including a layman’s opinion, like in court cases, unless, of course, if the case be that astrophysics, at some point in the future, would be bringing society to the brink of discoveries that requires a political decision, or a ruling by the courts.
 

jennymae

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2020
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#27
Wait until he meets a juror that understands and uses Jury Nullification.

He will really be mad on that one :ROFL:
Leastways the prosecutor will be madder than a wet hen.😂
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#28
The scientific method has not changed much --- but, the actual use of it has been in sharp decline for decades... :eek:o_O:censored::rolleyes:
How does one use the scientific method anymore when we are in such an advanced areas of knowledge where human observation is not possible in some many disciplined.
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
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#29
The way the scientific method works is that in order for something to be called a theory, it must first be backed by observable evidence
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#30
The way the scientific method works is that in order for something to be called a theory, it must first be backed by observable evidence
Yes, it must be proven to be true, but even a scientific theory can subsequently be shown to be false...

A scientific theory is a a coherent group of propositions formulated to explain a group of facts or phenomena in the natural world and repeatedly confirmed through experiment or observation; well-tested, broad explanations of natural phenomenon, based on a structure (or systematic scheme), conceived by the human imagination, to explain regularities in empirical data.

A "scientific theory" differs from a “scientific fact” or a “scientific law” in that a theory attempts to explain "why" or "how," whereas a “fact” is a simple, basic observation, and a “law” is a statement (often a mathematical equation) about a relationship between facts. For example, Newton’s Law of Gravity is a mathematical equation that can be used to predict the attraction between bodies, but it is not a “theory” to explain how gravity works. Stephen Jay Gould wrote that "... facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts."

Here is a list of 10 Wrongly Proven Famous Science Theories that are Still in Syllabus.

I do not see the Steady State theory on that list. It was also
proven wrong after being accepted as true by many scientists.
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
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#31
How does one use the scientific method anymore when we are in such an advanced areas of knowledge where human observation is not possible in some many disciplined.
"You just do..."

And, if you cannot - "oh, well"...

Do you realize that "advanced areas of knowledge" is very often the basis for the perpetration of evil deeds in the name of unproven [so-called] 'science'?

If "advanced areas of knowledge" is not backed up by/with a good 'scientific method', then we have entered the realm of "anything goes"...

Guess where we are now?

Look around you and see it everywhere.

Why do so many people today accept the ToE as scientific fact and believe it?

Because the 'scientific method' was "trampled on, pushed aside, and left for dead" by those with an agenda.

But, the worst part is that average-joe-citizen accepted it without making sure that it first went through the 'scientific method' filter.

If average-joe-citizen cannot repeatedly produce the desired results honestly in his own back yard, it is not real science.

At best, it may be called theoretical science.

And, if some theory dealing with 'quarks' cannot actually be proven honestly with repeatable observation - "too bad" - it should remain a 'theory' forever.

Mathematics can describe with great detailed precision whatever imagination can come up with.

That alone is not sufficient for proof of 'physical' reality.

If honest human observation cannot be had - "tough" - "live with it" - "keep it honest" - don't call it real science if the scientific method cannot or is not applied properly to 'prove' the desired results are verifiable.

The scientific method is and should be used without fail for a reason. It is the science equivalent of 'innocent until proven guilty' in a court of law. It serves to protect against the imaginations of evil minds.

Every individual needs to be very diligent in not allowing themselves to believe something just because some [scientific] 'authority' says it is true.

We live in a world of great deception and lies.

And, it is a fact that we should never allow ourselves to forget - not even for a moment...
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#32
"You just do..."

And, if you cannot - "oh, well"...

Do you realize that "advanced areas of knowledge" is very often the basis for the perpetration of evil deeds in the name of unproven [so-called] 'science'?

If "advanced areas of knowledge" is not backed up by/with a good 'scientific method', then we have entered the realm of "anything goes"...

Guess where we are now?

Look around you and see it everywhere.

Why do so many people today accept the ToE as scientific fact and believe it?

Because the 'scientific method' was "trampled on, pushed aside, and left for dead" by those with an agenda.

But, the worst part is that average-joe-citizen accepted it without making sure that it first went through the 'scientific method' filter.

If average-joe-citizen cannot repeatedly produce the desired results honestly in his own back yard, it is not real science.

At best, it may be called theoretical science.

And, if some theory dealing with 'quarks' cannot actually be proven honestly with repeatable observation - "too bad" - it should remain a 'theory' forever.

Mathematics can describe with great detailed precision whatever imagination can come up with.

That alone is not sufficient for proof of 'physical' reality.

If honest human observation cannot be had - "tough" - "live with it" - "keep it honest" - don't call it real science if the scientific method cannot or is not applied properly to 'prove' the desired results are verifiable.

The scientific method is and should be used without fail for a reason. It is the science equivalent of 'innocent until proven guilty' in a court of law. It serves to protect against the imaginations of evil minds.

Every individual needs to be very diligent in not allowing themselves to believe something just because some [scientific] 'authority' says it is true.

We live in a world of great deception and lies.

And, it is a fact that we should never allow ourselves to forget - not even for a moment...
I think you misunderstood my question.
Of course the scientific method is valuable but at the higher levels math/statistics become the tools along with observation.
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
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#33
I think you misunderstood my question.
Of course the scientific method is valuable but at the higher levels math/statistics become the tools along with observation.
You say valuable - I say valuable and necessary.

If tools are used to measure and understand observation, then 'good'; however, the moment they [effectively] modify [the true] observation, then 'bad bad bad'.
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
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#34
You say valuable - I say valuable and necessary.

If tools are used to measure and understand observation, then 'good'; however, the moment they [effectively] modify [the true] observation, then 'bad bad bad'.
And, if they are used to invent imagination-based results not actually observed - well, that is nothing short of treachery.
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
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#35
If you can't keep it honest - pure and true - you are better off not having it at all.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#36
A scientific claim is one that is backed by scientific experimentation. That experimentation must be observable, testable, repeatable, and falsifiable. A claim, even if made by a scientist, that is not founded on scientific experimentation, is not a scientific claim.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#37
A scientific claim is one that is backed by scientific experimentation. That experimentation must be observable, testable, repeatable, and falsifiable. A claim, even if made by a scientist, that is not founded on scientific experimentation, is not a scientific claim.
There are many things that cannot be directly observed though, like the fact that viruses are transmitted from one person to the other?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#38
There are many things that cannot be directly observed though, like the fact that viruses are transmitted from one person to the other?
It is observed in other ways. Take the virus example: an infected person coughs or sneezes or whatever in a room of healthy people... and some of those people then get sick with the same virus. This is repeated so often, a deduction is inescapable, and based on our prior knowledge of germs and how they are spread etc... the rest is history :)
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,805
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#39
There are many things that cannot be directly observed though, like the fact that viruses are transmitted from one person to the other?
True. Sometimes what is observable is the effects of the reality, and not the reality itself. This is the case with atomic-scale studies, for example.
 
Jun 22, 2020
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#40
Traditionally, a scientific claim must be falsifiable (testable). However, there are many scientific fields that don't adhere to this scientific method, especially the theoretical sciences such as the theory of evolution, big bang theory, or climate change.

So then what makes the covid claim scientific???
Covid has never been isolated and the PCR tests are not accurate enough to discern covid from a common cold...
Covid-19 is a pseudoscience...

What makes the experimental vaccine scientific???
They tell us to "follow the science" but there is no science behind the vaccines...