Why The Fruit Inspectors Get It Wrong - by Pastor Ralph Arnold

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ChosenbyHim

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
#81
Sep 19, 2011
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#81
Scribe said:
You don't have to be a theologian to recognize false doctrine.
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It is not false doctrine, Scribe.

It is the truth. Anyone of us could backslide and turn away from the Faith. If we do not walk in the Spirit and in the word. Well then, we will be walking in the flesh, and there is danger whenever a child of God, walks in the flesh.
 
ChosenbyHim

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
#82
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
114
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#82
throughfaith said:
You.ll have to explain over and over how this is not a licence to sin . This is what they accused Paul of also . They don't realise that legalism leads to despair ,hopelessness and yes ,sin .
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Indeed, when people try to put themselves back under the law, or when they ascribe unto Lordship Salvation, whether it is the Arminian view or Calvinistic view, they are probably more prone to sin.
 
ChosenbyHim

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
#83
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
114
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#83
throughfaith said:
///They, whom God hath accepted in His Beloved, effectually called, and sanctified by His Spirit, can neither totally, nor finally, fall away from the state of grace: but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved.(a)/// Whole world of issues with this teaching here . The main issue is ,you can never know .
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Very true, brother. One can never know who exactly will persevere in the faith. The only guarantee that I can make to any Christian is that if they will choose to continue to walk in the Spirit, then they will keep persevering in the faith. That is AS LONG as they keep walking in the Spirit. Calvinism's teaching on perseverance of the saints denies the believer's freewill.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#84
#84
ChosenbyHim said:
It is not false doctrine, Scribe.

It is the truth. Anyone of us could backslide and turn away from the Faith. If we do not walk in the Spirit and in the word. Well then, we will be walking in the flesh, and there is danger whenever a child of God, walks in the flesh.
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If you think that one can "deny the faith and turn from it. Yet though, we will still be saved." you have departed from the truth of the scriptures. This kind of thinking is some kind of re interpreting scriptures to say something that was never intended about grace and faith. It does not require a degree in theology to recognize that statement is false doctrine. I doubt you will find a single person in your lifetime that will agree with it. No one reading the bible for themselves would make that conclusion.

There might be some that say if you deny the faith and turn away from it you WERE NEVER saved, but I don't think anyone is going to agree with you that you can deny the faith and turn away from it and STILL be saved.

I don't even know why I am engaging. It is too dumb to argue about.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#85
#85
ChosenbyHim said:
Why The Fruit Inspectors Get It Wrong - by Pastor Ralph Arnold​

There are ministers, teachers and preachers out there which adhere to a false view of Lordship Salvation. It is usually the Calvinistic view of Lordship salvation which falls under the P in Calvinism's T.U.L.I.P. (i.e Perseverance of the Saints) And they will wrest Scriptures like Matthew 7:20-23, to try to teach that they can tell whose saved and who is lost, by observing how a person is living. But what they fail to realize is that in that passage in Matthew 7, Jesus said that a good tree CANNOT bring forth evil fruit, NEITHER CAN a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. (See vs. 18). If a Good Tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, that means it cannot produce or bring forth any bad fruit at all. Not even one bad fruit can come from a good tree, according Jesus' very own words in that passage. Now the question to consider is, Christian, after your salvation, have you ever did a bad deed? Have you ever sinned and had a bad thought??? If the answer is Yes, and obviously it is, and it is YES for ALL Christians, then that means we did bring forth a bad fruit. How could that be though?

If a Good Tree cannot even bring forth one bad fruit? The Answer is simply this. When Jesus Christ gave that remarkable illustration of the two trees, He was speaking about Old Nature (Bad Tree) and the New Nature (Good Tree). Our Old Sin Nature CANNOT even bring forth one good fruit. And Our New Nature CANNOT even bring forth one bad fruit. The Old Man (Bad and Corrupt Root) can only produce bad and evil fruit. And our New Man (Good Root) can only produce Good and wholesome fruit. Christians certainly can produce good fruit in their lives. And they should. But they can only produce this good fruit if they are walking in the Spirit and Yielding unto Him. And at the same time, a Christian can also produce bad and rotten fruit. Although they should not produce bad fruit, the truth is, all Christians have produced some level of bad fruit in their lives. and this is because all Christians at times will yield to the flesh and walk after the flesh (Old Man). And whensoever a Christian does walk after the flesh, they will produce the rotten fruit (bad works) of the flesh. please see Galatians 5.

For a born again Christian to bear good fruit, that Christian must abide in Christ and His Holy Scriptures. This is the only way that we can bear fruit. If we want to bear and produce any good fruit in our lives, if we want to live a changed, new and transformed life, we must abide in the Vine, which is Christ and His holy word. And if we as Christians do not abide in Christ, and do not abide in His words, and if we walk after the flesh (the bad tree), then any one of us can go back to our old life of sin. We could even get to a point where we deny the faith and turn from it. Yet though, we will still be saved. A Christian could even become a professing atheist. A born again Atheist????? Yes, it can actually get that bad. And yet, he would still be saved. Why? because the New Nature (Second Birth) is still in him. Just because a Christian lives and walks after the flesh (his first birth), that does not do away with his New Nature (Second Birth).


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Beware of this stuff. It is the "Free Grace Theology" that has been refuted by people like Wayne Grudem.
"Free Grace" Theology: 5 Ways It Diminishes the Gospel Kindle Edition

There is also an Audible.com version. I am waiting for my monthly credit to show up so I can get it and listen to it.
 
ChosenbyHim

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
#86
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
114
63
#86
Scribe said:
If you think that one can "deny the faith and turn from it. Yet though, we will still be saved." you have departed from the truth of the scriptures. This kind of thinking is some kind of re interpreting scriptures to say something that was never intended about grace and faith. It does not require a degree in theology to recognize that statement is false doctrine. I doubt you will find a single person in your lifetime that will agree with it. No one reading the bible for themselves would make that conclusion.

There might be some that say if you deny the faith and turn away from it you WERE NEVER saved, but I don't think anyone is going to agree with you that you can deny the faith and turn away from it and STILL be saved.

I don't even know why I am engaging. It is too dumb to argue about.
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There are others who agree with me. We are known as the Free Grace group of believers.

And this man and great teacher, Ralph Yankee Arnold also agrees with me.

 
S

Scribe

Guest
#87
#87
ChosenbyHim said:
There are others who agree with me. We are known as the Free Grace group of believers.

And this man and great teacher, Ralph Yankee Arnold also agrees with me.

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https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01BU6F8I...id=YJWEM9OC44JB&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it_im
"Free Grace" Theology: 5 Ways It Diminishes the Gospel


Extract yourself from this false teaching. It is easy to refute. Wayne Grudem does a good job of pointing out their bad hermeneutics. He was cheif editor of the ESV translation, his books on Systematic Theology are used in many bible colleges of various denominations.
 
ChosenbyHim

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
#88
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
114
63
#88
Scribe said:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01BU6F8I...id=YJWEM9OC44JB&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it_im
"Free Grace" Theology: 5 Ways It Diminishes the Gospel


Extract yourself from this false teaching. It is easy to refute. Wayne Grudem does a good job of pointing out their bad hermeneutics. He was cheif editor of the ESV translation, his books on Systematic Theology are used in many bible colleges of various denominations.
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Sir, Free Grace theology is sound Biblical Doctrine. It teaches us that Salvation is by Grace alone through Faith alone in Christ Alone.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#89
#89
ChosenbyHim said:
Sir, Free Grace theology is sound Biblical Doctrine. It teaches us that Salvation is by Grace alone through Faith alone in Christ Alone.
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It is not the same as what the reformers who coined the phrase were talking about. You can compare what the Free Grace Society say and what the reformers said and it is different. So it is just another cult using doublespeak to trick people into thinking they are saying something that they agree with but when you get into the details it is not the same. They say you should not ask anyone to repent or make any prayers to the Lord for salvation or it would be adding works. This is nothing that the reformers ever said or imagined being taught.
You owe it to yourself to read an scholarly view of why we reject these teachings. Read the book. If you still think that the Free Grace Groups have a superiour hermeneutic then run with it, but at least make sure you are checking the interpretations from both sides of an argument.

Just read the free sample pages from this book and I bet you will want to read the rest. You can get a feel for how thorough Wayne Grudem has covered the controversy. I did not need Waynes book to recognize the error, but If one is going to discuss the interpretations of scriptures with one of these Free Grace Society advocates this book is a good instruction manual on how to do it in such as way that it MIGHT turn the light on for a brother that has been deceived by these false teachings and smooth talkers.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01BU6F8I...id=YJWEM9OC44JB&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it_im
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#90
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#90
Scribe said:
If you think that one can "deny the faith and turn from it. Yet though, we will still be saved." you have departed from the truth of the scriptures. This kind of thinking is some kind of re interpreting scriptures to say something that was never intended about grace and faith. It does not require a degree in theology to recognize that statement is false doctrine. I doubt you will find a single person in your lifetime that will agree with it. No one reading the bible for themselves would make that conclusion.

There might be some that say if you deny the faith and turn away from it you WERE NEVER saved, but I don't think anyone is going to agree with you that you can deny the faith and turn away from it and STILL be saved.

I don't even know why I am engaging. It is too dumb to argue about.
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Which verse says the chain of ' events ' that happen to a person at the point of believing becomes undone ?
 
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