Was the Garden of Eden, literally Heaven on Earth? Was the Earth already fallen except for the Garden?

Were we in God's Love/Imagination when in the Garden? And then we separated from Him and became fallen with the rest of the Earth?

Do you have a better term to describe what we were before the fall?

Did satan cause the Earth to be fallen when he was cast out of Heaven? Did God create a safe-zone bubble of a Garden?

Did Original Sin add physical history of Man to the fallen Earth (evolution of homo sapiens)?

Hi, pittsburghjoe.

I have a much better term to describe what we were before the fall:

THE SUMMER.

Sorry, I couldn't resist...lol.

On a more serious note, Satan didn't cause the earth to fall, and he hasn't yet been cast out of heaven either.

In relation to this earth's fall, we read:

"For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. " (Romans 8:19-23)

Paul said that "the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him", and this "him" is Adam, "who has subjected the same".

In other words, when Adam fell, everything that God had placed under his charge fell with him.

As far as Satan's fall from heaven is concerned, we read:

"And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. " (Revelation 12:7-12)

This yet-future angelic battle which will result in Satan and his angels being cast down to this earth was first prophesied by the prophet Daniel:

"And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. " (Daniel 12:1)

In both Daniel's and John's prophecies, the time of Satan's casting down to this earth after his battle with Michael triggers "a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time" or what we would call "the great tribulation".

When he is cast down, Satan will come down "having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time", and in several places in the Bible we are told that this "short time" is 3 1/2 years.

Looking back at my citation from the book of Revelation, hopefully you noticed that, prior to his casting down which hasn't yet occurred, Satan is called "the accuser of our brethren" or the one "which accused them before our God day and night". These accusations are still taking place as I write in heaven. In fact, in the book of Job, which transpired long after the events transpired in the garden of Eden, Satan is seen appearing before God in heaven with other angels (Job 1:6-7, 2:1-2).

I hope that this helps to answer some of your questions.

I said cast out of Heaven ..not to Earth. Satan was the first to cause disorder in God's Kingdom. He is the reason for a genre of fallen.

Why was there a gate to the Garden? Why wasn't the Garden the whole Earth?

You did ask if Satan caused the earth to be fallen when he was cast out of heaven, so I thought that was what you were referring to.

In either case, Satan hasn't yet been cast out of heaven, so the answer to that question would have to be "no".

The earth fell when Adam sinned.

Why do you think Satan has authority of this place?

And the war happened after satan figured out what Jesus had done to his claim on everyone here.

Where in the Bible does it say that the Garden of Eden had a gate?

Well, they walked out the Garden somehow? That means there was a border, right?


Genesis 3:24 (KJV)

24. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

There was definitely some sort of entry point.

I was merely questioning your use of the word "gate" which doesn't appear in scripture.

Anyhow, may I ask where you're headed with these questions?

Is there a particular teaching that you're seeking to either confirm or refute, or are you just asking general questions?

Just curious.

Thanks.

Huh?

No; our first parents sinned, and their sin resulted in the curse on the ground.

"We" weren't in existence before the fall. Adam and Eve were innocent prior to eating the forbidden fruit.

No. See my answer to your second question.

Nothing in Scripture suggests that Eden was a "safe zone".

Again, huh?

Much of your line of questioning seems to be rooted in wild speculations. Read the text of Genesis 1-3. Let that be the foundation of your understanding.

When I said "We", I meant Adam and Eve.

Why does cursing the ground have to mean "fallen"?

Are you claiming we didn't become separated from God?

Does God say He cursed the ground ..or was it cursed ground because Adam became fallen?

17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

Is there something preventing the ground outside of the Garden from already have been fallen/cursed?

It's really helpful to use the "REPLY" button.

God cursed the ground. This likely resulted in it being much more difficult for mankind to have dominion over it. The effects are not spelled out in Scripture.

I said nothing whatsoever about separation from God.

Show me God cursing the ground.

Yes.

Again, nothing in relation to this earth fell or was cursed until the time that Adam sinned.

Genesis 3:17.

That doesn't say He cursed it.

Because you don't want it to? Again, why do you think satan has authority here?

The answer to your first question is "no".

It has nothing to do with what I want or don't want.

Rather, it has to do with what God's word says on the matter.

Whether you like it or not, nothing on this earth fell or was cursed until after Adam sinned.

Let's try this again:

Romans chapter 8

[19] For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
[20] For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
[21] Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
[22] For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
[23] And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Again, whether you like it or not (seemingly not), "the creature" (vs. 20) or "the whole creation" (vs. 22) was "made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him", ADAM, "who hath subjected the same" (vs. 20).

Of course, this subjection came into effect after Adam sinned.

That's reality, and you'd be wise to embrace it.

Before I address anymore of your questions, you need to answer the question that I asked you last night.

You're obviously here to promote some sort of doctrine, so why don't you just come out and plainly declare exactly what that doctrine is?

I await your straightforward reply.

I want to know what actually happened.
We have been misreading the scripture. The Earth was not cursed by God or Adam. It was already fallen from satan causing disorder.
That's why I say the Garden was a safe-zone.