When Has God Gathered After He Scattered Without Any Repentance?

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I am talking about people who converted (to judaism) after the cross. No they are not jewish and rabbinic judaism is of course not part of the Body of Christ. Bottom line is: yes, God made a covenant with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, not rabbinic judaism.
then you answered your own question.

And I and everyone I know would agree with you.

Once again, How can rabbinic Judaism be restored to the land when they reject Christ and Gods provision to them?

Israel is restored when they (as a nation) repent.

I thought I already said that. Forgive me if I did not make it clear.
 

Evmur

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Feb 28, 2021
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Hmmmm:unsure: Should I pick Land, or Salvation????? Hmmmm. Jews need to choose apparently. I would highly suggest they pick Jesus.
Jesus will be King of both and the ancient prayer will be answered "Thy kingdom come Thy will be done ON EARTH as it is in Heaven" ... and the glory of the knowledge of the Lord will cover the earth as the waters cover the sea.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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The borders of Israel today are almost invisible relative to ancient Israel...you call that “restoration”?

Prophecy that God could not fulfill in the OT due to disobedient Israel will certainly not be fulfilled in the descendants of the ancient pagan Khazarian Empire who occupy that land today - it is fulfilled in Spiritual Israel.
did i say that the borders were fully restored? nope. in fact they never occupied all the land God promised them -- not yet. but Israel exists as a nation now, not by their own doing -- and that is not insignificant.
can you explain how the prophecies of Ezekiel 38-39 are 'spiritually fulfilled by the church'? nope.


You found that verse proving God has at least once gathered Israel after scattering her for disobedience WITHOUT her first having repented? ;)

i've put more than one in here already.
Josiah became king, as prophesied by name, while the people were unrepentant.
the people were taken out of Egypt while stiff-necked, faithless & constantly accusing God of evil.
 

Journeyman

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2019
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Hmmmm:unsure: Should I pick Land, or Salvation????? Hmmmm. Jews need to choose apparently. I would highly suggest they pick Jesus.
And it shall come to pass, that ye shall divide it by lot for an inheritance unto you, and to the strangers that sojourn among you, which shall beget children among you: and they shall be unto you as born in the country among the children of Israel; they shall have inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel. Eze.47:22

ye are come unto mount Zion Heb.12:22

Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens Eph.2:19
 

oyster67

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May 24, 2014
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And it shall come to pass, that ye shall divide it by lot for an inheritance unto you, and to the strangers that sojourn among you, which shall beget children among you: and they shall be unto you as born in the country among the children of Israel; they shall have inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel. Eze.47:22

ye are come unto mount Zion Heb.12:22

Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens Eph.2:19
Do you believe this has been fulfilled already, or do you think it's fulfillment is yet future?
 

Journeyman

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Jan 10, 2019
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Do you believe this has been fulfilled already, or do you think it's fulfillment is yet future?
It's an on going process. It happens everytime a person comes to faith in our Lord,

He delivered us from the power of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of the Son he loves, Col.1:13

Once, on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed Lk.17:20

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Jn.3:3
 

oyster67

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May 24, 2014
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kaylagrl

Guest
Oh c'mon, God also expects us to use our brains. "Come, now, let us reason together."

Now, before you judge me, I fully believe God can resurrect all those legitimate Israelites in the OT that died if He wanted to, but that's not what prophecy says...it refers to "present day Israelites" which can't possibly refer to Literal Israel, but easily refers to Spiritual Israel, the church. Yes, prophecy can easily be fulfilled in them, but Jesuit "Left Behind" Futurists would rather believe Jesuit ideas which were thunk up to get the fingers of accusation against the Papal Antichrist pointing in other directions: the past and the future.
No such thing, you're making it up. Church does not replace Israel, no matter how much you wish it to be true.
 
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kaylagrl

Guest
The borders of Israel today are almost invisible relative to ancient Israel...you call that “restoration”?
Beginning, yes, gathering just as the OT says.

Prophecy that God could not fulfill in the OT due to disobedient Israel will certainly not be fulfilled in the descendants of the ancient pagan Khazarian Empire who occupy that land today - it is fulfilled in Spiritual Israel.
Debunked, years ago, no such thing. And "spiritual Israel" is also fake.
 
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kaylagrl

Guest
Seriously, do you believe that all modern-day jews are the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?
6+ million were murdered because someone believed they were real Jews. smh Give me a break with that nonsense.
 
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kaylagrl

Guest
"Jewish authority" are many christians authority about this issue. Mind-boggling.

Yes, Jewish authority, Jesus, the Word. Or do you have some other authority, like Rome, who started all this replacement theology in the first place.
 
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kaylagrl

Guest
Hmmmm:unsure: Should I pick Land, or Salvation????? Hmmmm. Jews need to choose apparently. I would highly suggest they pick Jesus.

God chose the people AND the land. Take it up with HIM!
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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The inspired words of the prophet Solomon declare God would always listen from heaven for the repentant cries of His scattered people and bring them back to the land after scattering them for disobedience.

You may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation and you will not find a single instance where God gathered Israel back to the land after scattering them for disobedience without them first having repented. His promises of deliverance regarding the Babylonian captivity are not an exception -- we know for a fact the Babylonian captivity not only permanently cured Israel of their idolatry, but led to the institution of hundreds of (anti-idolatry) laws meant to keep the people from ever falling under the spell of idolatry again. These laws, unfortunately, eventually became for the people the focus and the means for obtaining salvation rather than the representative lamb offered morning and evening which pointed to the Messiah.

ISRAEL HAS NEVER REPENTED OF KILLING JESUS CHRIST.

So, why do Christians disregard God's own divinely established principle for "scattering and gathering" and insist He had a hand in the events of 1948 when it can be shown that the occult U.N., the occult U.S. "Deep State", and the occult Papacy were behind them? Their disregard for this divine principle has led them to wrongly attribute Biblical promises to those who today call Jesus "son of a whore" and "the great imposter" rather than to whom God's promises pertain in our day: the Church, which is "Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise" because it is the Church which belongs to Christ, not impenitent pseudo-Jewish descendants of the pagan Khazarian Empire who don't have a drop of Semitic blood in them.
Some of them did repent and were saved into the church who heard the gospel after

“Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart,

and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:36-39, 41, 47‬ ‭

your correct about repentance it’s the first word Jesus preached in his ministry but repenting doesn’t save us unless we also believe the gospel and be renewed in the spirit of our minds about judgement

Israel in large part didn’t recognize Jesus because they were so focused on Moses law and its details . Sometimes looking to closely at something causes us to miss the overall
Message

they had learned the ordinances and statements of the law , but they hadn’t heard the witness of Christ in it things like this

“For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me;

him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

...Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:22-23, 26‬ ‭

they hadn’t heard that Christ was coming to set things straight in regards to Gods word of requirement Moses had already told them another was coming with more authority than himself and they needed to hear that one that was coming

repentance is a decision and the walk is a lifetime . When we accept repentance as a reality of Gods word , knowing who Jesus is the actions of repentance will follow from belief . They actually hadn’t done anything to repent they just heard the truth and believed and then they were baptized

repentance is when it pricked thier heart to know they had crucified the messiah they were made aware of what they had done so they experienced godly sorrow that leads to repentance

“For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭7:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when Peter told them who Jesus was and that he rose up they realized they had done a great sin this realization is where repentance lives they accepted the truth and it pushed them into repenting and being baptized
 

Journeyman

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2019
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?????????? Please clarify.
From the scripture I cited, the plot will be divided later, but we become citizens of his Kingdom now, by faith, by our relationship to him now, not just at a future time.

The OT prophecies of the Messiahs work shows this,

And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: Isa.11:1

This is when our Lord appeared 2000+ years ago. In his Kingdom to which we now belong,

They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain.....and his rest shall be glorious. Isa.11:9-10

That is, in Christ, in his Kingdom to which we now belong. If a believer doesn't have this peace now, then something is wrong with that believers faith. Unbelievers have no citizenship in his Kingdom.

And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt....Isa.11:11

As God delivered his people from those houses of bondage, he put forth his hand a second time to recover the remnant of his people, which began with his disciples 2000+ years ago and continues to this day.
 
Aug 3, 2019
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did i say that the borders were fully restored? nope. in fact they never occupied all the land God promised them -- not yet. but Israel exists as a nation now, not by their own doing -- and that is not insignificant.
can you explain how the prophecies of Ezekiel 38-39 are 'spiritually fulfilled by the church'? nope.





i've put more than one in here already.
Josiah became king, as prophesied by name, while the people were unrepentant.
the people were taken out of Egypt while stiff-necked, faithless & constantly accusing God of evil.
Please don’t change the subject - Spiritual Israel is still fulfilling prophecy. We’re talking about Literal Israel - and that a tiny sliver is not “the promised land”.

As far as scattering and gathering, Egypt was not a “scattering” - it was the place of origin and they cried out for deliverance! Good gravy, man, please stay on point :)

As for Josiah, it was the leadership that was the problem, and the people were not even scattered, so your example means nothing.

AGAIN, I CALL UPON HEAVEN AND EARTH AS A WITNESS THAT YOU FIND JUST ONE EXAMPLE IN SCRIPTURE WHERE ISRAEL WAS GATHERED BACK TO THE LAND AFTER BEING SCATTERED FROM IT FOR DISOBEDIENCE WITHOUT THEM FIRST HAVING CRIED OUT IN REPENTANCE.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
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Please don’t change the subject - Spiritual Israel is still fulfilling prophecy. We’re talking about Literal Israel - and that a tiny sliver is not “the promised land”.

As far as scattering and gathering, Egypt was not a “scattering” - it was the place of origin and they cried out for deliverance! Good gravy, man, please stay on point :)

As for Josiah, it was the leadership that was the problem, and the people were not even scattered, so your example means nothing.

AGAIN, I CALL UPON HEAVEN AND EARTH AS A WITNESS THAT YOU FIND JUST ONE EXAMPLE IN SCRIPTURE WHERE ISRAEL WAS GATHERED BACK TO THE LAND AFTER BEING SCATTERED FROM IT FOR DISOBEDIENCE WITHOUT THEM FIRST HAVING CRIED OUT IN REPENTANCE.

scattered: removed from their place.

He said to Abram:
Know certainly that your descendants will be strangers in a land that is not theirs, and will serve them, and they will afflict them four hundred years"
(Genesis 15:13)

Genesis 15 is a key in the scripture, a 'strange attractor' in a mathematical sense in the network structure of the interconnectivity of the Book. it is John 17; it is Revelation 19; it is Genesis and in it, Israel, both spiritual and literal, are divinely predestined to dwell, afflicted, in a place that is not their home for time. they were not taken away from their sojourning by their own choice or because of their repentance or works, but because God had determined the years of their sojourning.


Please don’t change the subject - Spiritual Israel is still fulfilling prophecy. We’re talking about Literal Israel - and that a tiny sliver is not “the promised land”.

As far as scattering and gathering, Egypt was not a “scattering” - it was the place of origin and they cried out for deliverance! Good gravy, man, please stay on point :)

As for Josiah, it was the leadership that was the problem, and the people were not even scattered, so your example means nothing.

AGAIN, I CALL UPON HEAVEN AND EARTH AS A WITNESS THAT YOU FIND JUST ONE EXAMPLE IN SCRIPTURE WHERE ISRAEL WAS GATHERED BACK TO THE LAND AFTER BEING SCATTERED FROM IT FOR DISOBEDIENCE WITHOUT THEM FIRST HAVING CRIED OUT IN REPENTANCE.
since your conversation in this thread is to suggest spiritualizing so many literal prophecies in the OT, i presumed that you had the maturity and consistency to understand what the spiritual meaning of "scattering" is

maybe i was not correct
 
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
507
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Some of them did repent and were saved into the church who heard the gospel after

“Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart,

and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:36-39, 41, 47‬ ‭

your correct about repentance it’s the first word Jesus preached in his ministry but repenting doesn’t save us unless we also believe the gospel and be renewed in the spirit of our minds about judgement

Israel in large part didn’t recognize Jesus because they were so focused on Moses law and its details . Sometimes looking to closely at something causes us to miss the overall
Message

they had learned the ordinances and statements of the law , but they hadn’t heard the witness of Christ in it things like this

“For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me;

him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

...Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:22-23, 26‬ ‭

they hadn’t heard that Christ was coming to set things straight in regards to Gods word of requirement Moses had already told them another was coming with more authority than himself and they needed to hear that one that was coming

repentance is a decision and the walk is a lifetime . When we accept repentance as a reality of Gods word , knowing who Jesus is the actions of repentance will follow from belief . They actually hadn’t done anything to repent they just heard the truth and believed and then they were baptized

repentance is when it pricked thier heart to know they had crucified the messiah they were made aware of what they had done so they experienced godly sorrow that leads to repentance

“For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭7:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when Peter told them who Jesus was and that he rose up they realized they had done a great sin this realization is where repentance lives they accepted the truth and it pushed them into repenting and being baptized
OK, but the premise of this thread is to ask the question, How could God have had anything to do with 1948 when there isn't one instance in all of Scripture where He gathered Israel back to the land after scattering them for doing evil without them having first repented? Can you find one such instance? And, please don't do as Posthuman does: take a non-example and try to make it one.
 
Aug 3, 2019
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scattered: removed from their place.
Yes, which wasn't possible until AFTER the Exodus and AFTER they entered the promised land.
Genesis 15 is a key in the scripture, a 'strange attractor' in a mathematical sense in the network structure of the interconnectivity of the Book. it is John 17; it is Revelation 19; it is Genesis and in it, Israel, both spiritual and literal, are divinely predestined to dwell, afflicted, in a place that is not their home for time. they were not taken away from their sojourning by their own choice or because of their repentance or works, but because God had determined the years of their sojourning.
Do I really have to clue you in on why Israel wound up in Egypt? Good gravy, man, what false prophet have you been listening to? God did not scatter Israel and family into Egypt due to disobedience - He lead them their by His providence to endure the famine and grow into a nation. Please stop trying to put square pegs in round holes.
since your conversation in this thread is to suggest spiritualizing so many literal prophecies in the OT, i presumed that you had the maturity and consistency to understand what the spiritual meaning of "
scattering" is maybe i was not correct
Solomon was talking about literal scattering and gathering, not some "spiritual" meaning. Read it for yourself.


Just admit you can't find a single instance, OK?

At least I've had some suggest that the return from the Babylonian exile was an example...until I pointed out the exile not only cured Israel from her addiction to idolatry, but inspired hundreds of "anti-idolatry" laws which Jesus had to expose as unnecessary - but no one has dared peg the "Ludicrous Doctrine" meter by pointing to the Exodus as one such example. The nation wasn't even around yet when Israel went down to Egypt LOL
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Do I really have to clue you in on why Israel wound up in Egypt? Good gravy, man, what false prophet have you been listening to? God did not scatter Israel and family into Egypt due to disobedience - He lead them their by His providence to endure the famine and grow into a nation. Please stop trying to put square pegs in round holes.
Hebrews 12:8
But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons.

Why do you figure God allows Himself to be struck and His sheep be scattered - does He mean His people harm or good? To destroy or to build up