Not By Works

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#151,021
#151,021
Phoneman-777 said:
Not sure who's preaching "works based salvation" here, but let me know so we can both set them straight :)
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he goes by the title of Phoneman-777, he preaches a watered down law, works based earning view of salvation

he teaches we receive in the spirit , but then have to perfect it in the flesh.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#151,022
#151,022
Phoneman-777 said:
I wasn't talking about the two men who each built and finished a house, the one on the rock and the other on sand. That's a lesson on being careful to make sure we are on the right foundation.

But, Jesus also taught about our need to "count the cost" before going all in with Him, so that we don't end up resentful and without affection for Him, as one who rushes into marriage but later on wants out: The tower builder must ensure he is willing and able to complete the work before commencing it; the plowman must ever continue to look ahead to keep the plow straight; Paul said he "finished the course" and "kept the faith"; Jesus said the saints must "endure to the end".

There's simply no other way to understand these texts but to say they are all evidence that we can being with Jesus and build on His foundation but not finish with Him, and ignoring them in order to establish OSAS is not an option.
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Once again, John is your enemy,

those who want out where never of us, that’s why they departed, to prove they were never of us,

yes we count the cost, for being a disciple and feeling the reward that comes with it, while enduring g the suffering that comes with it. Being a light in The World

there will be many on that day who see all their works burnt as wood hay and straw. While others find gold silver and orecious stones,

but even those who see nothing but ash,, as paul said they will still be saved as through fire,

youon the other hand, while you profess all yur great works you did in Jesus name, I fear that Jesus response to you will not be well, as he tell you to depart, for he never knew you

yountry to offer Jesus your works (bloody rags). Jesus will not accept them as payment,

Jesus paid it all, he said it is finished, he said become poor in spirit, and call out for his mercy and yu will be justified by faith, when will you repent and do these things?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#151,023
#151,023
CherieR said:
It may be helpful understanding salvation is more than just praying a sinner’s prayer. There needs to be a real trust/faith in Christ. Where pastors can get in trouble by counting hands raised or people going to the altar but that in and of itself does not show conversion. I believe in eternal security for the one who believes and receives Jesus.
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This is true, there are many make believers who think just because they said a prayer they are ok and can go live as they please.

thats why personal discipleship and small study groups are the preferred method, especially for large. churches, I prayed many times over a period of a year for agod to save me, it was not until I was sat down and a deacon walked me through the gospel message from genesis to revelation that I received Jesus into my heart,
 
Phoneman-777

Phoneman-777

Banned
#151,026
Aug 3, 2019
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#151,026
CherieR said:
There is persecution in the west too but does appear much less than other places. If faith can’t last through trials, what good is that kind of faith? Basically how I look at it.
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One preacher compared our experience in the West to that of our suffering brethren in far worse environments as "pinprick crucifixions".
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#151,027
#151,027
bellemira said:
The works prepared for us by the Lord God before He saved us?
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But how do we know who is doing them?

Even gentiles. who do not have the law. By practice obey.

The people in James went to church, They were seating people. so they were like ushers in todays church. They may even have held office.

Yet james said they had no works. they were hearers not doers.

So how can we tell if someone is doing things that appear christlike. yet like these people. have a dead faith
 
Phoneman-777

Phoneman-777

Banned
#151,028
Aug 3, 2019
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#151,028
eternally-gratefull said:
john also said whoever sins has never seen or known God, whoever is born of God can not sin (live like the world in sin)
but if I may borrow from Jesus himself, go to phonyman who pumps his chest praising God he is not like the sinners pointing his finger at EG, who Got on his knees unable to even look up and cried out for God to have mercy on a sinner like him,
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Phonyman? SMH.

When John speaks of the man who "cannot sin", he's not talking about when a Just Man falls seven times and rises up, he's talking about saints blinded by OSAS who climb down in it, get comfortable, swat God's outstretched hand away, and wave their OSAS License to Sin in His face.
 
CherieR

CherieR

Senior Member
#151,029
May 6, 2017
2,266
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#151,029
Phoneman-777 said:
Phonyman? SMH.

When John speaks of the man who "cannot sin", he's not talking about when a Just Man falls seven times and rises up, he's talking about saints blinded by OSAS who climb down in it, get comfortable, swat God's outstretched hand away, and wave their OSAS License to Sin in His face.
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In that case, it might be they were never saints to begin with...

I think of abusers that use the Bible in perverted ways to harm them victims. Such have not believed and received Christ.

Whoever is in Christ is a new creation according to 2 Corinthians 5:17.
 
Phoneman-777

Phoneman-777

Banned
#151,030
Aug 3, 2019
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#151,030
eternally-gratefull said:
There is no condition, unless you call recieving the gift freely given a condition.

a condition is a means in which one earns a reward, NT a way in which one recieves a gift, a gift is offered, it’s not the givers fault of the one he wants to give his gift to says no thank you,
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No, you don't get to rewrite the Bible and claim surrendering our will - which is not "outward work" but "inward thought" - earns us anything when Jesus Himself calls perfect surrender "unprofitable" and Paul calls it "reasonable service", and really, how much less "profitable" is our imperfect surrender or a slave who doesn't get paid anything to begin with?

Surrender is the opening of our empty hand to receive the free gift of salvation, while a tightly closed hand grasping a OSAS License to Sin can't receive anything, can it?
 
Phoneman-777

Phoneman-777

Banned
#151,031
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
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#151,031
eternally-gratefull said:
he goes by the title of Phoneman-777, he preaches a watered down law, works based earning view of salvation

he teaches we receive in the spirit , but then have to perfect it in the flesh.
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LOL - you mean he exposes eternally-gratefull's OSAS false doctrine which says salvation grants the Christian a License to Sin, when it's actually pardon for sin and power to obey...which makes such a License totally unnecessary to the one who truly loves Jesus, but absolutely necessary to the one who claims to love Jesus but just can't stop driving those fresh nails in His hands and feet, right?
 
CherieR

CherieR

Senior Member
#151,032
May 6, 2017
2,266
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#151,032
Phoneman-777 said:
No, you don't get to rewrite the Bible and claim surrendering our will - which is not "outward work" but "inward thought" - earns us anything when Jesus Himself calls perfect surrender "unprofitable" and Paul calls it "reasonable service", and really, how much less "profitable" is our imperfect surrender or a slave who doesn't get paid anything to begin with?

Surrender is the opening of our empty hand to receive the free gift of salvation, while a tightly closed hand grasping a OSAS License to Sin can't receive anything, can it?
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Many OSAS believers in Jesus do not want to sin all the time. I find comfort in the doctrine of eternal security. I trust in Jesus and his promise to not turn away those who come to him( John 6:37). It is His character and actions that prove that He can be trusted. I never see Jesus turn anyone away in the Gospels who desired something of him.
 
CherieR

CherieR

Senior Member
#151,033
May 6, 2017
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#151,033
As Christians our relationship is with Jesus. OSAS or eternal security is a doctrine that many Christians believe in. I believe one can be a Christian and not believe in OSAS. OSAS is a doctrine while Jesus is a person, God in human flesh. My trust and hope is first and primarily in the Lord Jesus.
 
Phoneman-777

Phoneman-777

Banned
#151,034
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
507
113
#151,034
eternally-gratefull said:
Once again, John is your enemy,

those who want out where never of us, that’s why they departed, to prove they were never of us,

yes we count the cost, for being a disciple and feeling the reward that comes with it, while enduring g the suffering that comes with it. Being a light in The World

there will be many on that day who see all their works burnt as wood hay and straw. While others find gold silver and orecious stones,

but even those who see nothing but ash,, as paul said they will still be saved as through fire,

youon the other hand, while you profess all yur great works you did in Jesus name, I fear that Jesus response to you will not be well, as he tell you to depart, for he never knew you

yountry to offer Jesus your works (bloody rags). Jesus will not accept them as payment,

Jesus paid it all, he said it is finished, he said become poor in spirit, and call out for his mercy and yu will be justified by faith, when will you repent and do these things?
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Who is the true enemy of John, one who takes into consideration only half of what he wrote which inevitably leads to a misrepresentation of John's words, or one who takes all into consideration before drawing a conclusion?

No matter how much you reeee and scream, John is clear that good works are the evidence of saving faith while the absence of it proves otherwise.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#151,035
#151,035
Phoneman-777 said:
Phonyman? SMH.

When John speaks of the man who "cannot sin", he's not talking about when a Just Man falls seven times and rises up, he's talking about saints blinded by OSAS who climb down in it, get comfortable, swat God's outstretched hand away, and wave their OSAS License to Sin in His face.
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Nope

He is talking about people who claim because they said some prayer they are saved. And can live like the world.

James calls them licentious.

Your trying to put people who hold to eternal security with them. Your wrong.

Its time to get off your OSAS trip. Lets talk about eternal security based on faith in Christ.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#151,036
#151,036
CherieR said:
In that case, it might be they were never saints to begin with...

I think of abusers that use the Bible in perverted ways to harm them victims. Such have not believed and received Christ.

Whoever is in Christ is a new creation according to 2 Corinthians 5:17.
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Amen

Jude speaks of these people

4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness, and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#151,037
#151,037
Phoneman-777 said:
No, you don't get to rewrite the Bible and claim surrendering our will - which is not "outward work" but "inward thought" - earns us anything when Jesus Himself calls perfect surrender "unprofitable" and Paul calls it "reasonable service", and really, how much less "profitable" is our imperfect surrender or a slave who doesn't get paid anything to begin with?

Surrender is the opening of our empty hand to receive the free gift of salvation, while a tightly closed hand grasping a OSAS License to Sin can't receive anything, can it?
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Your the one rewriting the bible my friend

The tax collector Got on his knees and cried out. And god saved him

He did not get on his knees and promise to do all these things.

You have to be saved BEFORE God will change you.

Again. Paul calls your gospel foolish. Trying to perfect your salvation in the flesh
 
Phoneman-777

Phoneman-777

Banned
#151,038
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
507
113
#151,038
CherieR said:
In that case, it might be they were never saints to begin with...

I think of abusers that use the Bible in perverted ways to harm them victims. Such have not believed and received Christ.

Whoever is in Christ is a new creation according to 2 Corinthians 5:17.
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They could also have been abiding in the Vine of Christ but at some point ceased to abide. They could have been agape filled saints but later allowed iniquity to kill their agape cold and dead.

If only grace-saved saints receive agape in their heart, but end up having it consumed by their iniquity, fail to endure to the end, and wind up lost, how can Once Saved, Always Saved stand in light of this?

Shouldn't we abandon it and simply trust that as long as we are surrendered to Jesus, He will not only save us from the Lake of Fire but also empower us to live victoriously?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#151,039
#151,039
Phoneman-777 said:
LOL - you mean he exposes eternally-gratefull's OSAS false doctrine which says salvation grants the Christian a License to Sin, when it's actually pardon for sin and power to obey...which makes such a License totally unnecessary to the one who truly loves Jesus, but absolutely necessary to the one who claims to love Jesus but just can't stop driving those fresh nails in His hands and feet, right?
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Nope

He is phony who calls himself man 777, tryng to act like a child of God but denying its power to change people. Who is angry at people like EG. Because they trust God who said he will complete his work. Will do it. And not might do it..
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#151,040
#151,040
Phoneman-777 said:
Who is the true enemy of John, one who takes into consideration only half of what he wrote which inevitably leads to a misrepresentation of John's words, or one who takes all into consideration before drawing a conclusion?

No matter how much you reeee and scream, John is clear that good works are the evidence of saving faith while the absence of it proves otherwise.
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No matter how much you scream..I do not believe otherwise.

Trus faith will Produce true works.

If one clams to have faith but NEVER has works. their faith is dead. they are not saved.

So once again. You prove you can not comprehend anything I say.
 
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