Not By Works

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Aug 3, 2019
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Pure HOGWASH! You have NO IDEA what we TEACH. It is Pure AGAPE LOVE, the only Pure Motive, is why we serve GOD. Something I doubt that You know anything about.

Apparently, You only Know how to Hate.


Titus 3:9-11 (HCSB)
9 But avoid foolish debates, genealogies, quarrels, and disputes about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.
10 Reject a divisive person after a first and second warning,
11 knowing that such a person is perverted and sins, being self-condemned.


Romans 3:28 (GWT)
28 We conclude that a person has God's approval by faith, not by his own efforts.

1 John 3:14 (HCSB)
14 We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers.
The one who does not love remains in death.
So, you don't find His commandments grievous? Good. Then, you agree that we can obey them out of love for Him, yes?
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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Are you referring to the mirror James speaks of; the Law of Liberty?

nope, i am referring straight to you.

you tell others what they believe, and dismiss their answers when they tell you they do not believe that.
so, use your Bible and work on yourself, and stop judging others by your silly lordship salvation non-sense.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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So, you don't find His commandments grievous? Good. Then, you agree that we can obey them out of love for Him, yes?

which circles back to my question that you dodged-

if my salvation , or lack thereof, is tied directly to how well i keep the Commands, then what is the amount of not doing so will disqualify me from it?

there has to be an exact formula that applies to every Christian.

so, what is it?
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
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They could also have been abiding in the Vine of Christ but at some point ceased to abide. They could have been agape filled saints but later allowed iniquity to kill their agape cold and dead.

If only grace-saved saints receive agape in their heart, but end up having it consumed by their iniquity, fail to endure to the end, and wind up lost, how can Once Saved, Always Saved stand in light of this?

Shouldn't we abandon it and simply trust that as long as we are surrendered to Jesus, He will not only save us from the Lake of Fire but also empower us to live victoriously?
As long as one is in this flesh on the earth, surrender to Jesus is not entirely complete because of the struggle with sin. One may overcome sin more through God’s power but will not ultimately stop sinning until going to heaven or when Jesus finally comes back. The more one can surrender to Jesus now the better.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Jesus "walked" with God...so that means He accepted a blood sacrifice for His sins, right? Of course not. "Walk" is a repeatedly used Biblical metaphor for "Behavior", like when Enoch "walked" with God, or when we're told to "walk" in the ways of the Lord".

Those who "walk" after the Spirit are keeping God's commandments - they don't deliberately, habitually, impenitently break them, then claim God's promises of forgiveness through a OSAS License to Sin. ;)
Are you claiming sinlessness?

Is there someone here you are accusing of deliberately, habitually, impenitently break the commandments?

Oh, right: you are a Sabbatarian. So anyone who worships God every day is breaking the commandments?

Sabbatarians actually say such ridiculous things as that.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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I heard an anecdote yesterday -

"if God is unable to save me against my will, the He isn't able to send me to hell against my will either"
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
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Nope

You just hate that my security is in Christ. And I believe he will (not might) change people

Its ok. The pharisees hated Jesus too. So I am in good company
@Phoneman-777 never said he hated Jesus. He doesn’t like OSAS doctrine. Just like I believe in eternal security and believe the Bible supports it, he believes the Bible supports a different doctrine. I understand where one may believe eternal security and where one may believe differently.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Nope

Your telling me a person can be born of God. and then sin themselves out of salvation.
And not only that, but @Phoneman-777 your position is that the majority of people born of God have turned right around and sinned there way to hell, right?
And that it's largely because they trust God to keep them and work in them instead of relying on their own willpower?

That idea, if it is indeed the one being put forth, makes God very poor at saving people. In fact it makes God downright inept.

As for myself I believe in the God who is mighty to save to the uttermost.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
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North Carolina
Not sure who's preaching "works based salvation" here, but let me know so we can both set them straight :)

As for me, I preach salvation is on condition that our belief in God's Word leads to the surrender of our will, for if we believe without surrendering, we are no different than trembling devils.

You preach to us that "self" has to "hold onto salvation" and you preach that those of us who believe in God's work and the work of the Holy Spirit from God who has "sealed us for eternity are following a "satanic" doctrine. Salvation is without "condition" because it is a gift from God to His fallen creation. You twist it all around in your dislike for what you call OSAS
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
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Words mean things. "Unconditional" means "without condition". Unless salvation is available to all without condition, then it is conditional. :)
Salvation is for all who will "accept the offer from Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ." The offer is there but the "choice" is ours.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
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have you ever heard this concept- the Bible is a mirror to look at your own reflection in, and work on the flaws you see in you.

it is not a window to look at others and point out their flaws.

read and apply accordingly.

Nope phoneman sees only the flaws of others and acts as though he sits on the ultimate throne of judgment.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
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he goes by the title of Phoneman-777, he preaches a watered down law, works based earning view of salvation

he teaches we receive in the spirit , but then have to perfect it in the flesh.

He is very good a "preaching" to us. Does he have a "license" to do so?
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
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LOL - you mean he exposes eternally-gratefull's OSAS false doctrine which says salvation grants the Christian a License to Sin, when it's actually pardon for sin and power to obey...which makes such a License totally unnecessary to the one who truly loves Jesus, but absolutely necessary to the one who claims to love Jesus but just can't stop driving those fresh nails in His hands and feet, right?

You are like a robot who has been taught only one sentence to speak. "license to sin." If we wanted to just sin, we wouldn't need a license. If we wanted to live a life disobeying Jesus, we would refuse His gift. One of the most disgusting actions is for a Christian to sit in the seat of judgment that only Our Lord and Savior is fit to occupy. The next most disgusting action is for a Christian to be so hypocritical and say how they "obey" God and yet continue to judge others.
 
Mar 23, 2021
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Not a bad question. However, is the focus of a saved soul on himself and his own works, or is the focus on Christ and HIS work, and as a result of that one's works are done out of gratitude for what one has already freely received? See the difference in focus?

You can never compare the idea of doing works in order to get something with doing works because you have already been given something. Never.
So, your answer to my question is "No". Am I correct?
But how do we know who is doing them?

Even gentiles. who do not have the law. By practice obey.

The people in James went to church, They were seating people. so they were like ushers in todays church. They may even have held office.

Yet james said they had no works. they were hearers not doers.

So how can we tell if someone is doing things that appear christlike. yet like these people. have a dead faith
Perhaps we cannot, but God knows what which works He has prepared in advance:

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Ephesians 2:8-10
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
@Phoneman-777 never said he hated Jesus. He doesn’t like OSAS doctrine. Just like I believe in eternal security and believe the Bible supports it, he believes the Bible supports a different doctrine. I understand where one may believe eternal security and where one may believe differently.
my point was that they hated Jesus for Jesus telling them their works will not save them. And how they just like him called him a lover of sinners and a hater of the law.

so when he hates on my belief in my view it’s the same as them hating on Jesus,
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Perhaps we cannot, but God knows what which works He has prepared in advance:

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Ephesians 2:8-10
yes, so we should not fruit inspect. Because we can not really use this to know who is truly saved or not
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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LOL I believe salvation changes us...OSAS denies that, claiming the only thing salvation causes to change is God's opinion of my iniquity that remains.

YOU GOT THAT FROM ME, I was the one that told you that because we were BORN AGAIN, that birth changed our Human Spirit to a Eternally Alive, human spirit that has Agape Love for GOD.