The key to the Pre-Trib Rapture:

Your "Zeal" is to be commended.

Your ability to speak civilly with other Christians is not seen.

I would post the following for you and ask that all you have to do is read this and do the study and you will be an approved workman for the Lord..........

Stage 1: Gathering of the Armies of the Antichrist

The assembling of the armies begins at the same times as the divine judgement of the sixth bowl. At this time the Euphrates River will be dried up, making it faster and easier for the armies of the “kings from the east” to assemble. The armies joining him will be those of the seven remaining kings out of the ten described in Daniel 7:24-27 and Revelation 17:12, 13. Their goal will be the final destruction of the Jews. (See Revelation 16:12-16)

Stage 2: Babylon Destroyed

In this stage, the activity shifts from the gathering of the armies of the Antichrist to the destruction of Babylon. While the Antichrist is with his armies in Armageddon, his capitol will be attacked and destroyed.* Babylon will be a worldwide economic and religious center of activity during the tribulation. The warfare will be intense and the destruction will be massive. Although the Antichrist will be a world ruler, his control will not be so absolute as to prelude rebellion or opposition. He will try, but it will be tactically impossible. (Revelation 17-18; Daniel 11:41; Jeremiah 50-51; Isaiah 13-14)

* The location/true identity is unknown.

Stage 3: Jerusalem Falls

Although the Antichrist’s capital will have been destroyed in the second phase of the campaigning, his forces will not have been lost. The Antichrist will move south against Jerusalem. The Antichrist’s forces will sweep down to Jerusalem and the city will once again fall into Gentile control. (Zechariah 12:1-9 & 14:1-2; Micah 4:11-5:1)

Stage 4: The Antichrist Moves South Against Remnant

The campaign now shifts into the desert and mountains, probably to the location about 80 miles south of Jerusalem to the area of Bozrah/Petra. At the beginning of the second half of the tribulation, after the Antichrist breaks his treaty with Israel, pollutes the newly rebuilt Holy Temple, and issues a decree to kill the entire Jewish population. One third of the Jews will make it safely out of Jerusalem and flee into the desert. (Zechariah 13:8; Daniel 9:27; Isaiah 33:13-16; Jeremiah 49:13, 14; Micah 2:12; Matthew 24:15-31; Revelation 12:6, 14)

Stage 5: The Regeneration of Israel

Before Christ returns there must be a confession of Israel’s national sin and a pleading for the Messiah to return. This will come as the armies of the Antichrist are poised to destroy the Jews in the wilderness. Living in the rocks, holes and graves of the Petra/Bozrah area, the nation of ISrael confesses repents and receives the Lord Jesus as their Savior with the words of Isaiah 53:1-9. (Leviticus 26:40-42; Deuteronomy 4:29-31; 36:6-8; Jeremiah 3:11-18; Hosea 5:15; Isaiah 64; Zechariah 12:10; Matthew 23:37-39; Isaiah 53:1-9; Romans 1:25-27; Joel 2:28-32.

Stage 6: The Second Coming of Jesus Christ

The prayers of the Jews are answered as Jesus Christ will return to earth to defeat the armies of the Antichrist at Petra/Bozrah and begin the final portions of the campaign. He will return to earth in the clouds, in the same manner in which He departed. At His second coming, Jesus Christ, the Messiah, will enter battle with the Antichrist’s forces, fighting him without human assistance, with the word of His mouth. He will quickly and easily defeat them. According to Jude 14-15 and Revelation 19:11-16, Jesus will return with an angelic army and with the church of saints who had been raptured prior to the tribulation. (Isaiah 34:1-7; 63:1-6; Habakkuk 3:3; Micah 2:12-13).

Stage 7: The Final Battle

In this phase the Antichrist will be slain by the true Christ. Beginning at Bozrah and moving back to Jerusalem and the Kidron Valley (also known as the Valley of Jehoshaphat), Jesus, the Messiah and King of the Jews, will miraculously engage and destroy the Antichrist’s forces. (Habakkuk 3:13; II Thessalonians 2:8; Joel 3:12, 13; Zechariah 14:12-15; Revelation 14:19, 20)

Stage 8: The Ascent to the Mount of Olives

With the destruction of the Antichrist and his forces complete, the campaign will be over and Jesus will go and stand on the Mount of Olives in a symbolic victory ascent. When this happens, there will be a number of cataclysmic events that will bring the tribulation to an end. As described in Zechariah and Revelation., The supernatural calamities that come upon the world at this time, including the greatest earthquake the world has known, correspond to the seventh bowl of judgement. As a result of the earthquake, Jerusalem will split into three areas and the Mount of Olives will split into two parts, creating a valley. In addition to the earthquake there will be a tremendous hailstorm and a blackout with an eclipse or darkening of the sun and moon. With subsiding of these events, the campaign of Armageddon and the tribulation will end. It is fitting that such worldwide catastrophes accompany the global judgement and Christ’s second coming. (Zechariah 14:3-5; Joel 3:14-16; Matthew 24:29; Revelation 16:17-21).

I appreciate your honesty, but doubt that you will follow your stated words, time will tell?

When are you going to stop teaching Jesus Christ returns to Mount Zion, when Zechariah 14:4 clearly teaches the Mount Of Olives, and you have been shown this truth several times?

And yes, you still are in denial of the Lords second coming in fire, dissolving the heavens and earth, before your eyes, when the Lord is revealed, appears, comes, its fire time (Denial) a huge (Error)

Is rest of Revelation after chapter 14 all occuring somewhere else besides Earth?

I'm not in denial of anything the Bible says. It's more like I'm learning more as we study it.

A year ago my entire end times theology centered exclusively around Matthew 24. I live in the gospel of Matthew, easily my favorite book of the Bible.

Over time I've branched out to other books and even more recently Revelation.

I appreciate your honesty once again, and will do all I can to present Gods truth to help.

Quick Take:

There will be a 3.5 year tribulation that starts when the Antichrist is revealed in Jerusalem

The two witness in Rev captain 11 will rule this 3.5 year through plagues and wrath, as the (Sealed) Church is protected, a complete remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt

The tribulation ends with the two witnesses being killed, laying dead for 3.5 days, raised to heaven as the world watches, as the final hour of earth's temptation unfolds, in the Lords second coming in fire in final judgement, as the resurrection of all takes place, the righteous are caught up, as the heavens and earth are dissolved by the Lords fire.

The wicked are judged to the Lake of fire, the righteous enter the eternal New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, (For Eternity)

The book of Revelation is taught in parallel teachings of same events

It's not taught in chronological order as many falsely teach

Example: Rev 16:12-14 & Rev 20:7-8 are the same kings/nations being gathered to the final battle on this earth

The moral of the story is, to respectfully post the translation used, and after all this you still haven't revealed it, happy face

The man of sin must be revealed claiming to be God which happens in the middle of the 7 years period before the resurrection happens.

The man of sin will be the one to establish peace in the Middle East starting off the 7 years period but he does not claim to be God until the middle of the 7 years period and then the resurrection happens.

When they take the mark of the beast then salvation is no longer available to them and God can take His people to be with Him and end sin on earth.

Salvation is available for the first three and one half years and as long as salvation is available to the world the saints will remain on earth to represent the truth.

That is why the beast blasphemes God and His people because the saints are on earth and have not been resurrected yet, for if the saints were not on earth the beast would not have to blaspheme against God and His people for the truth would not be on earth but the saints are on earth and the antichrist is saying that there is no personal God and Jesus is not Lord and Savior to convince the world to not follow the Christian religion.

But they will follow the new age movement interpretation of christianity where Jesus is not Lord and Savior but evolved to be an ascended master and the New Age Christ will evolve to be greater and spiritual and will share this power with all who follow him.

For to them evolution is religion and they are still evolving and that is how they will exalt themselves and not believe in a personal God.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The Bible plainly states that the saints will not be gathered unto Christ until there is a falling away first, and the man of sin claims to be God so people should stop saying otherwise.

The falling away first is the condition of the world in response to the Gospel which the nations governments came together as one.

The New Age Christ will work in the world for the first three and one half years as a great man of peace, and will push the agenda of the new age movement to prepare the world for when he claims to be God by evolving spiritually above all people.

Dan 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
Dan 8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
Dan 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

During the first three and one half years they will stop the preaching of anything contrary to the new age movement saying it is not the truth and they want peace not division so they stop the preaching of the Gospel, and Islam, and Judaism, because they believe in a personal God, and Christianity believes Jesus as Lord and Savior, and at the end of that three and one half years is the falling away first when the transgressors are come to the full.

Then the antichrist will claim to be God and understand dark sentences and speak great swelling words because Satan controls him to convince all those who do not love God to follow his agenda, and all people who do not love God will be given strong delusion to follow the antichrist which they will be deceived by a devil.

And there is no tribulation saints after a so called pre-trib resurrection because there is only 2 resurrections, 1 of the saints before the millennial reign of Christ, and 1 of the dead after the millennial reign of Christ.

And the Bible says whoever does not make it in the first resurrection has to go to the second resurrection so there is no tribulation saints after a so called pre-trib resurrection.

And the saints are caught up at the last trumpet, but the 6th trumpet happens during the first three and one half years which causes the world to turn to the New Age Christ as the solution to have peace on earths so the resurrection has not happened by a so called pre-trib resurrection.

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
2Ti 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
2Ti 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

When the resurrection does not happen pre-trib it will overthrow the faith of some people and they will end up following the new age movement interpretation of the Bible as the correct interpretation of the Bible based on the occult, and evolution.

We need to shun profane and vain babblings as the Bible calls it and people need to study the Bible more.

There is no so called pre-trib resurrection but the saints will not be gathered unto Christ until the world stops the preaching of the Gospel and the man of sin claims to be God which is in the middle of the 7 years period.

Note to the readers:

--Revelation 16:12-16 [/ 19:19,21 / 20:5 (vv.1-3)] corresponds with the following scripture (Isa24):

21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish[1] the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.

22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be punished[2]



--BY CONTRAST, in Rev20:7-8, Satan is "LOOSED OUT OF HIS PRISON"


... completely OPPOSITE ACTIONS; in the former (of these two), Satan is NOT being "loosed out of his prison," but being "SHUT UP IN THE PRISON" (Rev20:1-3--at the time of Rev19:19,21 / 16:14-16 Armageddon conclusion).


They CANNOT be the "SAME"

(and only by disregarding all "chronology" clues as "unimportant fluff," could one come to such a conclusion--which is what the "Amill-teachings" are notorious for doing)

(Note To The Writer)

Your writing in response is (Chaos), caps, underline, slant italics, different colors, exclamations, different sizes font, unreadable (CHAOS)

Says the person who wrote what they wrote in their Post #204 of this thread (and who, himself, uses "different colors" also)

What Are You Going To Do With All That Fire Seen Below In Scripture, "At The Second Coming" Of Jesus Christ, Pretend Like It Dosent Exist?

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation.

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ!

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

There Is "One" Future Resurrection Of All, This Takes Place On The Last Day, At The Second Coming Of Jesus Christ In Fire And Final Judgement, Immediately After The Tribulation.

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Very true.

If they would do half the research on their own favorite "commentaries," they would see example of what you say, as truth.

In fact, Geo E Ladd (POST-tribber) had said (perhaps in one of his writings, I forget, it's been so long...) he SAID, [something to the effect of] "IF Rev5:9 says 'US,' then one would HAVE to conclude a 'PRE-trib Rapture'..."
(and so did one of the most well-known "pre-wrath" writers say this same thing)
.... well, GUESS WHAT!

(read what I'd put in Post #64 of "oldhermit's" Rev thread, which I quote from here):


[quoting excerpt from past post]

[...] the "24 elders" themselves saying (from their position up in Heaven, BEFORE the first Seal is opened [which Seals are the START of the "future, specific, LIMITED time-period" 1:1 / 1:19c /4:1 spoke of]), "hast redeemed US [G2248 - hemas] to God by thy blood out of [ek] every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation"

Here's the Greek (for Rev5:9) showing at BlueLetterBible - https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/rev/5/9/ss1/s_1172009 showing them saying "us [G2248 - hemas]"... "hast redeemed US...".


In past posts, I provided the link to the following info on that verse (boiled down here):

--of the 24 [total] manuscripts available (of the Greek) of Revelation chpt 5 [specifically, 5:9], 23 of them have it as "US [G2248 - hemas]" and only ONE manuscript (the only other one) leaves it blank [/untranslated]. (That ONE manuscript [of 24 total manuscripts (Rev5)] that leaves it blank/untranslated is the "Codex Alexandrinus".)

[end quoting post excerpt]

Matthew 13:39,40,49-50 uses the phrase "the end of the AGE" (this is contrasted with "the age TO COME" Jesus had already spoken of in the previous chpt).

In view of this ^ , consider what Thayer's Greek Lexicon says (at Bible Hub) about this word "age [G165]," in this vein:

[quoting from Bible Hub, under G165]

3. As the Jews distinguished הַזֶּה הָעולָם the time before the Messiah, and הַבָּא הַעולָם, the time after the advent of the Messiah (cf. Riehm, Lehrb. d. Hebraerbr., p. 204ff; (Schürer, § 29, 9)), so most of the N. T. writers distinguish ὁ αἰών οὗτος this age (also simply ὁ αἰών, Matthew 13:22; Mark 4:19 G L T Tr WH; ὁ ἐνεστὼς αἰών, Galatians 1:4; ὁ νῦν αἰών, 1 Timothy 6:17; (2 Timothy 4:10); Titus 2:12), the time before the appointed return or truly Messianic advent of Christ (i. e., the παρουσία, which see), the period of instability, weakness, impiety, wickedness, calamity, misery — and αἰών μέλλων the future age (also ὁ αἰών ἐκεῖνος, Luke 20:35; ὁ αἰών ὁ ἐρχόμενος, Luke 18:30; Mark 10:30; οἱ αἰῶνες οἱ ἐπερχόμενοι, Ephesians 2:7), i. e., the age after the return of Christ in majesty, the period of the consummate establishment of the divine kingdom and all its blessings: Matthew 12:32; Ephesians 1:21; cf. Fritzsche on Romans, vol. 3:22f.

[end quoting from Bible Hub; bold and underline mine]

https://biblehub.com/greek/165.htm


____________

Throughout Jesus's earthly ministry, He spoke OFTEN regarding the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom (which will commence upon His "RETURN" to the earth, when He comes [to the earth])... I'll try to go find my list of "examples" [/passages]...

More accurately stated the man of sin is revealed when he makes a peace TREATY with Israel.
Which correlates with the first seal being opened. Which is the beginning of the seven year tribulation.

The statements that you posted or absolutely true by the way. This nonsense about racism in America is nothing more than some kind of a globalist/government plot to divide and destroy the nation.

"America is now the least racist white majority society in the world. Has a better record of legal protections of minorites than any other societies white or black. Offers more opportunities to a greater number of black persons than any other society, including all those of Africa".

^ EDIT to ADD to my Post #376 (PARTIAL LISTING):


Jesus spoke of it [what we call the EARTHLY MK age] throughout His entire earthly ministry... every time that He spoke of:

--"the kingdom OF THE heavenS"

--"the age [SINGULAR] to come"

--"the wedding FEAST/SUPPER"

--the "G347 - 'shall sit down' [around a table/at a meal]"

--the TWO times He referred to "RETURN" [re: Himself],
Lk19:12,15,17,19 "RETURN," and
Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 [and their parallels], "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..."
(i.e. as an ALREADY-WED Bridegroom), THEN the meal [G347]

--the times He told "the 12" they would "sit on 12 thrones, judgING the 12 tribes of Israel"

--when He referred to "in the regeneration when..." (that ^ reference [one of them])... "when the Son of man shall sit on the throne of His glory" Matt19:28 [<--this being His EARTHLY "throne" upon His RETURN to the earth (there will be NO "goats" in Heaven, for example, Matt25:31-34 [parallel parts of Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50])]

--ALL "Son of man cometh/coming/shall come/etc" references (referring to His RETURN to the earth; NOT "our Rapture") to "judge and to reign"

--a number of times when the "BLESSED" is made reference to (8-10 times total, including elsewhere in Scripture like Dan12:12 and Rev19:9, etc)

--"...the greatness of the kingdom UNDER the whole heaven" Daniel 7:27 (which follows the specific time-period referred to in v.25, parallel to other time-related passages speaking of the same 2nd half of the future trib yrs)... again, not referring to "UP IN Heaven" in this text

--many more references...

UP UNTIL the time that He spoke His Olivet Discourse (and INCLUDING IT), He had NOT YET spoken to them ANYTHING about anything else but [what we call] "the promised AND PROPHESIED *earthly* Millennial Kingdom".

That ole KJV trusty sword, time honored for 410 years states (End Of The World)

Are you quoting from a counterfeit, supported by the (Novum Testamentum Graece) a Greek Text created by Adulterers (Kurt and Barbara Aland), and homosexual Union supporter (Carlo Maria Martini) that supports the NIV, NASB, ESV, Etc

Matthew 13:38-39KJV
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

No such thing as a 7 year tribulation, it starts when the Antichrist is revealed in Revelation 13:5 and hes given power 42 months or 3.5 years, that includes his power for any peace treaty.

Revelation 13:5KJV
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.