Visualization in Prayer

I think the op was deliberate in her verbage. " Open up new spiritual world" states the motive

I found a playlist:
Skipping around a bit, I found one song I had heard in church back in the day. The songs are a bit of the 'lalalala' variety. That doesn't really get the meaning across as it does when I sing it in a high pitched voice. The songs, IMO, are a bit less musically interesting (to my ears) than some of the contemporary songs you mention which now happen to be accompanied by rock guitars-- or more often the non-distorted guitar ambient sound combined with a strong. I like the modern style personally. I also like many styles of old hymns. I like Gregorian chants. These 'lalalala' choruses from the '80's can have great lyrics, but the musical style isn't really my favorite. I can praise God to them.

It would be great if more scripture were put to different styles of music for praise music, IMO. I consider the musical style to be largely a matter of taste and the words that edify. If the music is appealing, I find that good. The psalmist said to play skillfully with a loud noise.

Some of the newer songs are actually rather good in terms of lyrics, and some of them do take lyrics out of scripture or have good doctrine. Much of the song 'The Blessing' comes right out of scripture, for example. Some of the songs will have generally good doctrine but have a few lines here and there that are questionable.

...Nothing worse than having to keep your eyes and attention on a screen because of the complex nature of a song and its music. That is one thing my wife complains about with modern music.

I remember being in one meeting last year where the volume of the music was horrendous. it was so bad that I had to leave my seat and go to the back of the room and stand behind a screen because the volume was playing havoc with my pacemaker rythms.

Worshiping that image would be idolatry. We worship God who is invisible, with faith based in the Scriptures. Faith is the evidence of things not seen. If you are worshiping a humanoid figure on a throne, then you are worshiping a god that is not in the Bible, but one concocted in your imagination.

Thank you for posting this. It reminded me that we never had any overheads or projectors as we did not need them. Because the songs were simple it only needed singing a couple of times and the words and tune were picked up. Nothing worse than having to keep your eyes and attention on a screen because of the complex nature of a song and its music. That is one thing my wife complains about with modern music.

I remember being in one meeting last year where the volume of the music was horrendous. it was so bad that I had to leave my seat and go to the back of the room and stand behind a screen because the volume was playing havoc with my pacemaker rythms.

If Ezekiel worshiped during his vision-- recorded in the Bible, would you call that idolatry.

I am wary if people who make a bunch of junk up and call that doctrine. The Bible says not to make a graven image and bow down to it. There are no warnings against thinking in pictures when you pray. Today many people think in pictures. I assume this was the case in times past, especially among people who spent less time reading.

That's not what the op is about, this is an obfuscation.

Ezekiel's vision was from God, not his imagination.

The op gave specific staments as to intent.
Use visualization with the Lord's prayer
And open up new spiritual worlds.

But if someone reads Ezekiel's vision and imagines what he is reading, picturing it in his mind, is that a vision or imagination?



Sounds like a bit of hype, but hype and idolatry are not the same thing. If you say that is untrue, well that is something we could discuss. The conversation went on to talk about 'idolatry'-- which is not the same thing.

What is your problem with the author's specific statements about what to do with the Lord's prayer? Is it just that you object to the term 'visualization'?

If Ezekiel worshiped during his vision-- recorded in the Bible, would you call that idolatry.

I am wary if people who make a bunch of junk up and call that doctrine. The Bible says not to make a graven image and bow down to it. There are no warnings against thinking in pictures when you pray. Today many people think in pictures. I assume this was the case in times past, especially among people who spent less time reading.

It was the OP's comment: "Opening up a new spiritual world" that firmly suggests New Age spirituallty.

I have limited knowledge of new age stuff

I have limited knowledge of new age stuff but that seems to be an unreasonable assertion.

This is really disturbing sights at progressive churches and I believe it's an unwise handling of matters that makes a bad testimony (whatever is being taught) that distracts people. Not to mention this common scene of a group of max 15 people gathered in a small locale and they're yet having a sound speaker system with a guy shouting in a microphone. The worldly sounding top of the pops for the day style of music was already mentioned, anything but relaxing and calm.

I remember going to church without OHPs and then when these things started to be added. We relied a lot on hymnals back then, but sang choruses. I think it is a lot like driving a GPS. If you don't have one, you learn directions fast. If you do have one, it can take a lot longer to learn the route. It's kind of a crutch. I am not anti-screen myself, though. I do like everyone being able to see the Bible on the page if it is used that way.

I went to a church for a little while where the volume was ridiculously bad. I finally got the sound guy to turn it down when I pointed out the decibels might hurt a baby's ears that was placed in the front. I wore cotton in my ears for a while so I could hear and gave cotton to family members. It was ridiculous. The pastor was telling the sound guy to do it. He didn't seem to be deaf when you calked to him, and he was young. And right at the end, when the pastor wanted to emphasize the end of the message, he told the sound guy to crank up the sound, and sometimes I couldn't make out what he was saying anymore. Maybe the sound was quiet on stage. The pastor got lots of feedback that the sound was too loud. I think some people left over that.

Something I don't care for is the practice of playing some kind of gospel or CCM mood music at the end of a sermon, during an 'altar call' or whatever they say at the end. Many years ago the doctor me my hearing was normal 'for my age.' Maybe young folks could make it out, but I've been in situations where the sound wasn't perfect, and the preacher was trying to present the gospel at the end, but I could hardly make out what he was saying over the music.

I have heard a lot of background music during movies and TV shows-- fiction designed to manipulate our emotions. When I hear it during a sermon used like that, IMO, it can give off an air of fakeness, of a lack of seriousness. That's not what is intended. But in my opinion, it is often a distraction, and it can make it harder for seniors to hear.

The answer for you would be to further educate yourself on the New Age movement.

@crossnote also
Be wise to what is good and simple concerning evil, Paul said.

Judge doctrine by the word of God, not by similarity to New Age or a million other religions.

Why do you have expertise in New Age?

Perhaps noise/volume equals power. Or maybe noise/volume hides the fact that there is no power present.

Maybe. Seriously, we need to go to the bottom of this and ask from where this culture originates.

My point has been 'what is the source and impetus of the visualization?' Self or God's Word?
You are giving examples where it is God's Word.

This post that was to speak of Christian visualization has been turned by evil ones into visualization that is not Christian. Many seem to be helping the evil one work. It should stop.