Cessationism vs. continuationism...does it make any difference?

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presidente

Senior Member
#561
May 29, 2013
9,164
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#561
Lookupnotback said:
Yahyah, blahblah....do you really think i did not expect you to do the “i am rubber, you are glue! What you say, bounces off pf me and sticks to YOUUUuuuu....!”, hahaha, your so predictable in your emotionalism’s...
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Again, the difference is my posts are based on scripture and facts (e.g. what you actually said.) You imagine things about people and accuse them of them. You also take scripture out of context.

I could use 'Thou shalt not commit adultery" and pretend I know that you committed adultery, and post accusations like that toward you if I chose to act like you do.
 
Lanolin

Lanolin

Well-known member
#562
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#562
usually ignore people like this who are being petty when others have gifts and use them.
They are tiresome but theres the ignore button.

The gifts are not the same as the fruits though. Some people can have a great gift, but with no fruit. they just have a gift thats all! A gift isnt of benefit to you if you fail to use it with love.
 
R

ronair

Banned
#563
Jun 18, 2020
111
30
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#563
presidente said:
Gifts are given as the Spirit wills according to I Corinthians 12.

Jesus called casting out demons in His name a sign or miracle, depending on your translation.
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You believe that the supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit are still going on today just as they did during the 1st Century?
You believe this because of your understanding of the Bible?

Is the answer yes to both of these questions?

I look forward to your reply.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#564
May 23, 2012
13,067
4,349
113
#564
ronair said:
You believe that the supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit are still going on today just as they did during the 1st Century?
You believe this because of your understanding of the Bible?

Is the answer yes to both of these questions?

I look forward to your reply.
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yes and yes
 
R

ronair

Banned
#565
Jun 18, 2020
111
30
28
#565
CS1 said:
yes and yes
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Thank you for your reply.

If your reasoning for believing that the 1st Century supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit is scripture than do you accept this same reasoning on the Biblical narrative that the Earth is flat. It too is based on scripture.

1st Chron. 16:30, Psalms 96:10, Psalms 93:1, Isaiah 45:18, etc.

Those who support this view also use the train of thought that since no one can point to a verse that states that the world is not flat then it must be flat, regardless of evidence to the otherwise.

Please understand, I am not saying you believe that the earth is flat but do you accept the reasoning of those who do believe the earth is flat because of scripture?

I look forward to your reply.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#566
May 23, 2012
13,067
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#566
ronair said:
Thank you for your reply.

If your reasoning for believing that the 1st Century supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit is scripture than do you accept this same reasoning on the Biblical narrative that the Earth is flat. It too is based on scripture.

1st Chron. 16:30, Psalms 96:10, Psalms 93:1, Isaiah 45:18, etc.

Those who support this view also use the train of thought that since no one can point to a verse that states that the world is not flat then it must be flat, regardless of evidence to the otherwise.

Please understand, I am not saying you believe that the earth is flat but do you accept the reasoning of those who do believe the earth is flat because of scripture?

I look forward to your reply.
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LOL

first Off let me be clear,

I think you are condescending however, I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

First I do not believe God is the god of the 1 Century where HE did supernatural manifestations, I believe the God of The Bible is the GOD of ALL Centuries past present and Future.

And the Word of God recorded Centuries and decades of God's supernatural working which man has been a part of ever since God Formed a man out of dust. And that Same God can and does do supernatural working in the lives of people today and God doesn't need your intellect or approval to do so.
WE only know the Nature of God by three ways :

  1. By His creation Rom chapter 1
  2. By His word
  3. By HIS Son
That is it.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#567
Jul 3, 2015
60,334
29,581
113
#567
ronair said:
Thank you for your reply.
If your reasoning for believing that the 1st Century supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit is scripture than do you accept this same reasoning on the Biblical narrative that the Earth is flat. It too is based on scripture.

1st Chron. 16:30, Psalms 96:10, Psalms 93:1, Isaiah 45:18, etc.

Those who support this view also use the train of thought that since no one can point to a verse that states that the world is not flat then it must be flat, regardless of evidence to the otherwise.

Please understand, I am not saying you believe that the earth is flat but do you accept the reasoning of those who do believe the earth is flat because of scripture?

I look forward to your reply.
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1 Chronicles 16:30 Tremble before him, all the earth! The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved.

Nothing even hinting at the earth being flat there.

Same with Psalm 96:10 Say among the nations, "The LORD reigns." The world is
firmly established, it cannot be moved; he will judge the peoples with equity."

Likewise Psalm 93:1 The LORD reigns, he is robed in majesty; the LORD is robed in
majesty and armed with strength; indeed, the world is established, firm and secure.

Nor does Isaiah 45:18 imply, infer, or hint at a flat earth. “For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.”
 
R

ronair

Banned
#568
Jun 18, 2020
111
30
28
#568
CS1 said:
LOL

first Off let me be clear,

I think you are condescending however, I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

First I do not believe God is the god of the 1 Century where HE did supernatural manifestations, I believe the God of The Bible is the GOD of ALL Centuries past present and Future.

And the Word of God recorded Centuries and decades of God's supernatural working which man has been a part of ever since God Formed a man out of dust. And that Same God can and does do supernatural working in the lives of people today and God doesn't need your intellect or approval to do so.
WE only know the Nature of God by three ways :

  1. By His creation Rom chapter 1
  2. By His word
  3. By HIS Son
That is it.
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Thank you for your reply.

Nothing in your reply addressed the question, could you please address the question?

It is rather rude of you to call me "condescending", it is not warrented. Also starting off a reply by laughing is not a mature way to present a response. If you have no response, just don't reply, maybe someone else can.

If you prefer, I will rewrite the question. Just let me know what part of the question is "condescending" to you.

I look forward to your reply.
 
R

ronair

Banned
#569
Jun 18, 2020
111
30
28
#569
Magenta said:
1 Chronicles 16:30 Tremble before him, all the earth! The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved.

Nothing even hinting at the earth being flat there.

Same with Psalm 96:10 Say among the nations, "The LORD reigns." The world is
firmly established, it cannot be moved; he will judge the peoples with equity."

Likewise Psalm 93:1 The LORD reigns, he is robed in majesty; the LORD is robed in
majesty and armed with strength; indeed, the world is established, firm and secure.

Nor does Isaiah 45:18 imply, infer, or hint at a flat earth. “For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.”
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You are missing the point.

The issue is not that scripture supports or does not support a non-moving flat earth, it is the train of thought that since they are convinced that the scriptures are saying it is flat then it must be flat. The prima facie is meaningless. You may think your understanding of these verses is correct but where is the "smoking gun" verse that states the earth is not flat. Christian flat-earthers have a theology based on scripture and no other mode of logic will be used or even considered.

This is the same error in pentecostal reasoning.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#570
May 23, 2012
13,067
4,349
113
#570
ronair said:
Thank you for your reply.

Nothing in your reply addressed the question, could you please address the question?

It is rather rude of you to call me "condescending", it is not warrented. Also starting off a reply by laughing is not a mature way to present a response. If you have no response, just don't reply, maybe someone else can.

If you prefer, I will rewrite the question. Just let me know what part of the question is "condescending" to you.

I look forward to your reply.
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nothing in your question needed to be answered in any other way I gave it if it is my answer to your opinionated question.

YOU said " If your reasoning for believing that the 1st Century supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit is scripture than do you accept this same reasoning on the Biblical narrative that the Earth is flat. It too is based on scripture. "

it appears you assume God has not moved in the First Century through the Holy Spirit? You, I think have also a presumption in the latter as to assume one thinks the earth is flat and that is seen in the word of God. I can tell you where I am standing it is very much flat. the context of a flat earth is not the same as one believing the word of God that the Holy Spirit is very much working in them and through the lives of the Body of Christ As Jesus said HE would in John gospel chapter 14 and 15. in all centuries.


The appearance of what is condescending to me was your comment

"If your reasoning for believing that the 1st Century supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit is scripture than do you accept this same reasoning on the Biblical narrative that the Earth is flat. It too is based on scripture."

There are many things people based a narrative on from scripture, yet they can be mistaken, You must define from the word of God what is descriptive and what is normative. It is condescending to build up a false narrative that is seen by many then try to attach it to another narrative to make it seem unreasonable. I.e. Flat earth narrative.

If you did not see that ok fine, however, the Holy Spirit is far more defined in the word of God than one's idea of a flat earth.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#571
May 23, 2012
13,067
4,349
113
#571
ronair said:
You are missing the point.

The issue is not that scripture supports or does not support a non-moving flat earth, it is the train of thought that since they are convinced that the scriptures are saying it is flat then it must be flat. The prima facie is meaningless. You may think your understanding of these verses is correct but where is the "smoking gun" verse that states the earth is not flat. Christian flat-earthers have a theology based on scripture and no other mode of logic will be used or even considered.

This is the same error in pentecostal reasoning.
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that is why you are condescending.

The reasoning for the Gifts to the Holy Spirit for today is seen in 1cor chapter 12-14. To see the normative of God and the Holy Spirit working in the lives of man every day is seen in Every Book of the Bible The word is "Providence". No Better book than that of Esther.

There is not one time God is mentioned in the book BUT God is clearly seen by what HE did to protect HIS People.

The Protection of God is not defined by human intellect. God requires faith.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#572
Jul 3, 2015
60,334
29,581
113
#572
ronair said:
You are missing the point.

The issue is not that scripture supports or does not support a non-moving flat earth, it is the train of thought that since they are convinced that the scriptures are saying it is flat then it must be flat. The prima facie is meaningless. You may think your understanding of these verses is correct but where is the "smoking gun" verse that states the earth is not flat. Christian flat-earthers have a theology based on scripture and no other mode of logic will be used or even considered.

This is the same error in pentecostal reasoning.
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I very much doubt it is the same error that leads to Pentecostalism as believing the earth is flat. Nor am I missing the point, since absolutely NOTHING in the verses you cited have anything at all to do with the earth being flat.
 
PaulChristensen

PaulChristensen

Active member
#573
Mar 17, 2021
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#573
presidente said:
The very next verse says to 'Confess your faults one to another and pray one for another that ye may be healed.' So even in James 5, healing is not the exclusive domain of the elders. People can be healed through the anointing with oil of elders (possibly accompanied by the confession of sin), prayer and confession of sin with one another, through the ministry of evangelists like Philip, or through the laying on of hands of brethren like Ananias in Acts.

I Corinthians 12 was likely written after James 5. If we look at Acts 14-15 and for hints in the epistles, the apostles preached the Gospel and churches formed and started functioning without appointed elders to pastor them. We do not know if Corinth had elders yet or not. If a believer is given the gift of healing and he is not an elder, he should be a good steward of his gift and use it. Peter says to minister gifts one to another as good stewards of the manifold grace of God in I Peter 4.
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Sounds feasible, but I don't like to read too much into the Scriptures. However I do offer prayer to anyone who comes across my path with a medical condition. No unbeliever has ever refused my offer. They seem to appreciate that I care enough to want to offer a prayer for them.
Where does Tabitha being raised from the dead fit in there? It seems to fit in both of your categories.
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You want to include the whole context. The result was that her whole family and many of the wider community turned to the Lord. It showed the Lord's compassion, as well as for the purpose of turning many to Christ.
 
PaulChristensen

PaulChristensen

Active member
#574
Mar 17, 2021
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#574
presidente said:
But it could be a side effect. God told Abraham that He would make his name great. It was God's choice to do so. God may choose individuals that He wants to be famous for whatever purpose.
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Granted. There is a difference between God making someone's name great, and the fellow making his own name great.
 
PaulChristensen

PaulChristensen

Active member
#575
Mar 17, 2021
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#575
presidente said:
I am suspicious of anything that smacks of 'Marian apparitions.' Miracles should point to Christ and not bowing down to statues that are made to represent His mother. But God may do what He wills and I do not know all that was going on there.

Beyond that, I don't care to read up on this. There are probably thousands of such claims. I'm not ministering to someone who is into this stuff, and I have better things to do with my time.

Your questions are irrelevant to the topic. If you can present some ancient or relatively recent historical claim to a miracle to me, and I cannot tell based on whatever evidence you present whether the account is legit or the explanation behind it, that detracts nothing at all from the teaching of scripture that the Spirit gifts certain members of the body of Christ to work miracles.

If you do not believe in miracles because it is difficult for you to tell whether they are from God or not, that would be a very foolish reason for unbelief. Early Christians could have to discern such things, and that did not mean the apostles were not doing miracles. Not believing in miracles out of __fear__ that you might wrongly discern if you were to allow yourself to believe such things as possible is irrational also.
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Good post. Miracles of the sun is right away from the Lord showing compassion on sick people by healing them.
 
PaulChristensen

PaulChristensen

Active member
#576
Mar 17, 2021
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#576
Nebuchadnezzer said:
I have heard people talk about how they pray to St. Anthony to find something that is lost and that it works all the time. In fact they boast in a similar way to how you boast.

So how do you know that it wasn't Satan who provided the $400?
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When I was a mature student, I got down to my last $100 and so I prayed that I have never asked for money before, but I think I need to now. The very next day I got a phone call from a local postmaster (I used to work for the Post Office) offering me a part time job. That gave me enough funds to get through the rest of the year, until I gained a typing teachers diploma to get me into a part time job teaching typing, until I graduated and got back out into the full time workforce.
 
PaulChristensen

PaulChristensen

Active member
#577
Mar 17, 2021
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#577
Nebuchadnezzer said:
As I suspected YOU ARE RECKLESS!

You are making equal the witness of today's sinners to the witness of God's Holy and perfect Word.
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Last night I watched a Youtube video about a academic who went to Israel to prove that the resurrection never took place. He found so much evidence supporting it, that he became a committed believer in Christ.
 
PaulChristensen

PaulChristensen

Active member
#578
Mar 17, 2021
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#578
Lookupnotback said:
Your love of gifts that are not your’s to have is what i am warning you about, the thing God hates the most in worship is the disrespect of the Holy Spirit, and that is all your focus is here, justifying the abuse of things that are not yours to have and claiming the Holy Spirit is in it blessing your actions.
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If all else fails, kick the other players instead of the ball.
 
PaulChristensen

PaulChristensen

Active member
#579
Mar 17, 2021
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#579
ronair said:
Thank you for your reply.

If your reasoning for believing that the 1st Century supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit is scripture than do you accept this same reasoning on the Biblical narrative that the Earth is flat. It too is based on scripture.

1st Chron. 16:30, Psalms 96:10, Psalms 93:1, Isaiah 45:18, etc.

Those who support this view also use the train of thought that since no one can point to a verse that states that the world is not flat then it must be flat, regardless of evidence to the otherwise.

Please understand, I am not saying you believe that the earth is flat but do you accept the reasoning of those who do believe the earth is flat because of scripture?

I look forward to your reply.
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I suspected that your question was a loaded one and not sincere.
 
PaulChristensen

PaulChristensen

Active member
#580
Mar 17, 2021
560
165
43
#580
CS1 said:
LOL

first Off let me be clear,

I think you are condescending however, I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

First I do not believe God is the god of the 1 Century where HE did supernatural manifestations, I believe the God of The Bible is the GOD of ALL Centuries past present and Future.

And the Word of God recorded Centuries and decades of God's supernatural working which man has been a part of ever since God Formed a man out of dust. And that Same God can and does do supernatural working in the lives of people today and God doesn't need your intellect or approval to do so.
WE only know the Nature of God by three ways :

  1. By His creation Rom chapter 1
  2. By His word
  3. By HIS Son
That is it.
Click to expand...
He asked the question to trap you. He's not interested in wanting to know more about the gifts of the Spirit. He just wants to have a two horse race with you about things that are pointless to the discussion.
 
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