WE are judged by what we do vs. we are saved by faith alone.

SophieT said:
so then you are counting on obedience to justify yourself. obedience to the works you believe are outlined for a Christian

can't see it I guess. (shrugs)

just a little heads up on how sin works. ANY sin makes you unrighteous unless forgiven by our faith in Christ's death in our place

ANY sin. ALL sin, except for blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, is forgiveable

We don't have a revolving door on our salvation

To clarify on a believer's forgiveness for sin, we don't ask. And the Bible doesn't say that we do. Rather, we confess that sin. 1 John 1:9.

When a believer confesses sin, they are forgiven and cleansed and brought back into fellowship. v.1-7

You can clearly see that obedience and faith are two sides of the same coin. As it pertains to God’s judgment, you can’t have one without the other. That’s why they are both necessary for salvation.

Who said anything about perfection? If we fall into sin and fail to live up to the commands Jesus gave us, he has told us to ask his forgiveness and then it is forgiven.

I feel like you and I are sooo close to agreeing with each other but there is a small thing dividing us.

I’m saying that faith and obedience are not separated, John provides a great example:
John Ch 3
36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him.

You can clearly see that obedience and faith are two sides of the same coin. As it pertains to God’s judgment, you can’t have one without the other. That’s why they are both necessary for salvation.

"Both are necessary" Evades the question Previously proposed for "perfectly"
obeying ALL that CHRIST Commanded The Twelve, for the Jews, AND
supposedly for those Today, who Claim the Same "great commission"
IS FOR THEM, Today!:


CHRIST Did, Plainly AND Clearly, According To The Scriptures:

Mat_19:21 "Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell
that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure
in heaven: and come and follow ME."

GMF, what are you waiting for? Do you still deny that
This Failure is "DEAD faith"? Well?:

One "claims" he is saved, but has Still has not yet obeyed ALL That
CHRIST Commanded, "fallen into sin, not yet Selling Everything,"
has asked for forgiveness, and is forgiven? How does that work, Again?:

How Exactly is it that one IS forgiven, when one Continues to Disobey???
GMF, PULEEZ make up our minds!... Forgiveness is for those who obey, Correct?
-------------------------------------------------
Of Course, with God's Word of Truth, Rightly Divided, there is
no Such Problem of making excuses for disobedience! Amen?:

{ borrowed from my UPDATED Distinctions }:

Prophecy/Law { earthly! } = faith + works = PERFECT!:
(19) "Sell everything/follow Jesus" = Commanded in Matthew_19 : 21,
Mark_10 : 21, and Luke_12 : 33, 18 : 22! The Twelve and Jewish
believers obeyed = PERFECT! In Acts_2 : 44-45 and 4 : 32!!

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2 : 15 KJB!) From Things That DIFFER!:

Mystery/GRACE { Heavenly! }! By GRACE Through faith, Salvation
Is 100 Percent Free, but:

Eternal Rewards are 100 Percent Earned! One of our "good works" IS:
(19)
"...Work with your hands, to provide for your own/give to those in need..."
(Acts 20 : 35; Romans 12 : 11; 1 Corinthians 4 : 12; Ephesians 4 : 28;
2 Corinthians 12 : 14; 1 Thessalonians 4 : 11-12; 2 Thessalonians 3 : 7-12;
1 Timothy 5 : 8 KJB!)

Much much Better, eh? Be Blessed!

Much More...to be continued...

Post 77 explains that pretty well.

I don’t think you are understanding me properly. Every verse that talks about salvation and eternal life as it relates to faith is absolutely true.

You absolutely need faith to be saved.

But I cannot ignore everything else our scriptures tell us.

How many times does Christ tell us we will be cutoff if we’re not obedient?[/QUOTE}
One has to understand what He meant given the very clear verse wher He said He gives them (believers) eternal life and they shall never perish. So, to be "cut off" is always in an agriculture setting. It simply means the disobedient will be cut off from blessings, service and reward in eternity. No small things.

These verses teach that in order to "earn" eternal life, one must be perfect.

However, you must also consider what else Paul wrote to the Romans:

3:12 All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one.”
3:20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
3:28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

These verses prove that no one can fulfill Rom 2:6-8. That's why Christ came to earth and paid the entire sin debt of humanity on the cross. Everyone needs salvation. No one can earn it by their own righteousness.

In fact, this is what the Bible says about man's righteousness:

Isa 64:6 -
All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags (used menstrual rags!!); we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

There is nothing any person can do to earn or deserve salvation. That's why works/deeds are NOT a part of salvation.

The question is: what are works for? They are NOT for salvation, but for reward in eternity and blessings in time.

And all of them have no mention of works or obedience as a requirement for salvation.


Because salvation is by grace (Eph 2:8) there is nothing else needed. In fact, v.9 says "not of works". And NO verse says saved by grace through faith plus works.


No one should ignore any verse. It is believers, who are already saved, who are commanded for holiness and blamelessness, which is works/deeds. The question is: what are works for? They are NOT for salvation, but for reward in eternity and blessings in time.

Matt 25
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

Matt 25:41-43 tell those people go to hell because lack of good work.

41 depart from me.......to eternal fire/hell

Jesus the judge not say go to heaven but less reward

Ones again, to hell.

I’m assuming you believe salvation is a one time event, correct?

Salvation is based on faith in Christ. There is no justification for assuming that one must continue to believe in order to continue to be saved, though that surely is a very common misconception.

That said, I do NOT endorse or encourage anyone to live it up and ignore the Bible. While everyone who has believed WILL go to heaven, those who do rebel will not "get away" with anything. It may seem to in the eyes of others, but no one can see into the soul of others.

While it may seem that such children of God are quite happy with their sinful lifestyle, they are or will face God's discipline, just like human children face the discipline of their parents for disobedience. Read Heb 12:5-11. God's discipline is painful.

We may not see evidence of pain in God's rebellious children, but the Bible SAYS God punishes rebellion/disobedience and it is painful. So just BELIEVE the Bible and leave discipline to God. He knows best. We know nearly nothing about the status of other believers.

So quit fretting about those you may seem to think are "getting away" with everything. They aren't, or won't.

God's timing is perfect. Leave it all to Him.

One thing to keep in mind. Once a child of God, ALWAYS a child of God.

Can you be UN-born of your parents? Of course not. Your birth parents are ALWAYS your birth parents.

The same can be said of our spiritual new birth. God is ALWAYS our Father.

That means eternal security. And the rebellious kids will be disciplined, whether you can see it or not. It's not up to you or me to make judgments about God's kids. That's God's perogative alone.

We must accept all scripture as equal truths.

Scripture tells us to be perfect Matt. 5:48 “Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect”. Yet if we say we have achieved perfection, instead of giving our will to be perfect to God, we lie. We are perfect only through the perfection of Christ, but we must give our will to Him and will to be sinless, as Christ makes us as if we were sinless.

Scripture says we are judged by our deeds 2 Corinthians 5:10 “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil”. Scripture also says we are judged by faith alone. Eph. 2:8 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast”

When Christ gives us forgiveness, we know it is not based on our deeds but on our faith. We know to have faith in Christ is to have faith in His instructions to us as well as His ability to forgive our sins. We cannot live with the sin that Christ frees us from and remain free from sin.


How do you think these scripture truths all work together to be the truth of the Lord and not opposing instructions?

Precious friends, seems to me any New-born babes listening in, are
certainly going to have problems with the Confusion of the following, eh?:

Salvation by faith + works? OR: GRACE Through faith?
or: reconciling BOTH together?
God's Approval/TWO Different Gospels
Distinctions In God's Two Different Programs: Prophecy vs Mystery!

Is there a BIG Difference Between God's Relationship With us, And
our fellowship with HIM!? God's Simple Will

remission of sins by water baptism? OR: ONE Baptism BY The Holy Spirit?
or: combo of Both? 12 baptisms ....... OR: ONE Baptism

judgment of "the spirit" of others? OR: "Only God Knows the heart"?
(Romans 14 : 10-13 KJB!) .................. OR: (Acts 15 : 8; Romans 8 : 27 KJB!)

Confusion of whether God's Salvation is only "temporary" OR: Is Eternal!?
God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST!
+
Salvation is 100 Percent Free but Eternal Rewards are 100 percent Earned!:
God's FREE Gift of ETERNAL Life!

Precious friends, Please Be Very Richly Blessed, And Approved Unto God,
in all your Diligent studies!

Then all the verses about receiving salvation/eternal life on the basis of believing without ANY mention of works can be discarded, right?

Matt 25
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

You can't discard these verse,

We cant discard any verse, all we need is to investigate and make conclusion

My conclusion is
Salvation by faith and faith is entrust our life to Jesus to the point in it Jesus into our heart

When Jesus undwell in us, the master of love will make us go be loving person, and those verse is the manifestation of love.

Is that mean salvation by work?

Not really, that work above are not from us, it is from Jesus in us.

John 15

15 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.
5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

No branch can bear fruit of itself

The fruit of Holy Spirit is love (feed the hungry etc)

So can't bear fruit mean can't produce pure love.

That why we need faith or abide to produce pure love.

Again, the root cause of salvation is faith,

Faith = salvation + loving work

Verse 6

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

No abide no fruit ....cast them into fire /hell ...... not go to heaven with less reward
So this verse is serious about hell.

The only thing I don’t think is entirely correct about your statement on works is that it’s all God’s doing, 100%.

It takes God’s grace to do the good works, nobody denies that. However, God gave us free will. We are not slaves, so we are choosing to do good and bad works. If God is making us do the good works instead of us choosing to do them, then they’re not our good works and we can’t grow in righteousness since we didn’t do anything.

You can't discard these verse,

We cant discard any verse, all we need is to investigate and make conclusion

Obey is part of faith, like engine is part of car.

I’m glad to see that at least one other person recognizes that. Everyone else on here keeps arguing for the position that a Christian doesn’t need obedience to God to be saved.