100% by Grace
- Thread starter SangWooSuh
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
"No I dont", nor have I been aware of the NIFB belief until now, thanks for the response
I have seen Anderson's youtube channel roughly 5-10 times over a period of a month some 2-3 years ago on different subjects, haven't been back since, little to hostile in your face for my belief
I was just looking up Anderson and his NIFB belief, pretty close to my belief, I also oppose pagan Sunday, Christmas, Easter observance,
I observe and teach following the 10 commandments in grace, including the 7th day Sabbath, I believe in the gifts of the Spirit and have received the gift of Tongues
I disagree with Anderson in his "presentation" on many subjects I agree with such as, Homosexuality, Zionism, Jews, etc, his approach is a little toooo "hostile" for me to accept, the reason I stopped watching Anderson after the one month
Wikipedia: New Independant Fundamental Baptist
New IFB's website lists its core doctrines as
salvation by faith alone,
once saved always saved,
King James Bible-only,
the Trinity,
soul-winning, worldliness,
"hard" preaching,
prewrath and post-tribulation rapture
and opposition to Calvinism,
dispensationalism,
liberalism,
Catholicism,
Orthodox Christianity,
and Zionism.[3]
I have seen Anderson's youtube channel roughly 5-10 times over a period of a month some 2-3 years ago on different subjects, haven't been back since, little to hostile in your face for my belief
I was just looking up Anderson and his NIFB belief, pretty close to my belief, I also oppose pagan Sunday, Christmas, Easter observance,
I observe and teach following the 10 commandments in grace, including the 7th day Sabbath, I believe in the gifts of the Spirit and have received the gift of Tongues
I disagree with Anderson in his "presentation" on many subjects I agree with such as, Homosexuality, Zionism, Jews, etc, his approach is a little toooo "hostile" for me to accept, the reason I stopped watching Anderson after the one month
Wikipedia: New Independant Fundamental Baptist
New IFB's website lists its core doctrines as
salvation by faith alone,
once saved always saved,
King James Bible-only,
the Trinity,
soul-winning, worldliness,
"hard" preaching,
prewrath and post-tribulation rapture
and opposition to Calvinism,
dispensationalism,
liberalism,
Catholicism,
Orthodox Christianity,
and Zionism.[3]
Just to follow up
(Top Two Deceptions)
1. The greatest concern and evil is the new translations, as they are counterfeits of Gods word KJV, removing words and verses, hiding the identity of the future Antichrist to mention one of many "Beware"
2. The false teaching of a future Millennial Kingdom on this earth, where Jesus returns in the second coming and takes a throne of David on earth?
This will be the Antichrist, and this false teaching is preparing his future seating in Jerusalem
Jesus will return in fire and Final judgement, dissolving the heaven and earth, eternity begins in the New Heaven, Earth, judgement complete
Feel free to ask on my belief, nothing to hide
Satan has worked through evil men for centuries to get where we are today in deception, I believe the Apostasy is well underway
(Top Two Deceptions)
1. The greatest concern and evil is the new translations, as they are counterfeits of Gods word KJV, removing words and verses, hiding the identity of the future Antichrist to mention one of many "Beware"
2. The false teaching of a future Millennial Kingdom on this earth, where Jesus returns in the second coming and takes a throne of David on earth?
This will be the Antichrist, and this false teaching is preparing his future seating in Jerusalem
Jesus will return in fire and Final judgement, dissolving the heaven and earth, eternity begins in the New Heaven, Earth, judgement complete
Feel free to ask on my belief, nothing to hide
Satan has worked through evil men for centuries to get where we are today in deception, I believe the Apostasy is well underway
-
1
- Show all
Hello again SangWooSuh, since you mentioned 1 John 1:8, I'll assume that this reply was meant for me. I seem to have failed to get the main point that I was intending to make across to you in my last post (sorry about that), that God is less interested in getting perfection 'from' us than He is in having a relationship 'with' us. I'll get back to you about that, but for now, I'll try to answer some of what you said in your latest post.
First off, while I do not disagree with you that v8 concerns our fallen nature (in part anyway), how did you come to that conclusion about the verse (IOW, how did you determine that the Apostle, by using ἁμαρτία/"sin", meant, "Original Sin", rather than something else (like the aggregate or body of sin that a person commits during the course of their lifetime?)
I'll stop here and wait for your answer before continuing my reply to you.
Thanks
God bless you!
~Deut
First off, while I do not disagree with you that v8 concerns our fallen nature (in part anyway), how did you come to that conclusion about the verse (IOW, how did you determine that the Apostle, by using ἁμαρτία/"sin", meant, "Original Sin", rather than something else (like the aggregate or body of sin that a person commits during the course of their lifetime?)
I'll stop here and wait for your answer before continuing my reply to you.
Thanks
God bless you!
~Deut
Hi.. I'm truly asking.. Truth7t7 posted just two verses (Eternal Security). From that you came away with "Post trib, KJV only, once saved always saved and Christians are Gods chosen people rather than Jews". no clue how you came to that..
Heb 6, Heb 10. Its clear who Paul (Holy Spirit) was writing to. Some times we need to go deeper. One case Jews were saved and would go back and offer a sacrifice for that sin. There is no more sacrifice for that sin. Christ can not die again. So to offer a sacrifice puts christ to open shame. Another is those that have tasted.. tasted was used more then once. They were never saved. Have you only tasted of Christ? Its not about believers. One can taste of God and never be saved. They then make a choice. Some heard know Christ and know He is the only way and never repented yet walk away. There is nothing out there to forgive them. This is what I have learned regarding these two verses. Forgive me I am no writer..
To the OP sorry but 4 verses does not begin to touch grace. In those 4 verses I don't see 100% grace. I have to say I keep trying and I get stuck. Well I start talking about grace and then... well its like you start to walk in this puddle then you don't know how but now its an ocean and its SOOOO wonderful. Sin which leads to grace and His death and.. I get stuck there. HOW how can I keep going with out thinking praising Him for all He has done...there is nothing else that matter then to just tell Him worship Him to know I did nothing what so ever yet some day He will say "I made this for you..what else do you want?" And a endless love forgiveness mercy grace. You first see Him in this life and you run hide you know how evil awful unrighteous you are and how HOLY HOLY HOLY He is. Then He just forgives you....you don't feel sad evil unrighteous anymore. You know you are worthy because of HIM and HIM ALONE! You know you did NOTHING! You know all the sins you did.. you tried to forget forgive you self but the enemy would never let you. As you look at Him.. He does not see it. Your hurt but filled with such joy.. you can't stop crying. Every person on the earth gave up on you.. never truly cared.. Yet you find out He always did and shows you how HE was there every time....oh how did you not see it? oh Jesus..
Yeah thats it.. I quit haha. Just gonna leave it and go. Thanks.. I want to show others the same grace HE shows me. I give to them what He freely gave to me. Jesus I don't have the words you know I don't.. thank you.. I pray the WORLD KNOWS how much you love them
no clue how you came to that.. Heb 6, Heb 10. Its clear who Paul (Holy Spirit) was writing to. Some times we need to go deeper. One case Jews were saved and would go back and offer a sacrifice for that sin. There is no more sacrifice for that sin. Christ can not die again. So to offer a sacrifice puts christ to open shame. Another is those that have tasted.. tasted was used more then once. They were never saved. Have you only tasted of Christ?
Its not about believers. One can taste of God and never be saved. They then make a choice. Some heard know Christ and know He is the only way and never repented yet walk away. There is nothing out there to forgive them. This is what I have learned regarding these two verses. Forgive me I am no writer.. To the OP sorry but 4 verses does not begin to touch grace. In those 4 verses I don't see 100% grace. I have to say I keep trying and I get stuck. Well I start talking about grace and then... well its like you start to walk in this puddle then you don't know how but now its an ocean and its SOOOO wonderful. Sin which leads to grace and His death and.. I get stuck there. HOW how can I keep going with out thinking praising Him for all He has done...there is nothing else that matter then to just tell Him worship Him to know I did nothing what so ever yet some day He will say "I made this for you..what else do you want?" And a endless love forgiveness mercy grace. You first see Him in this life and you run hide you know how evil awful unrighteous you are and how HOLY HOLY HOLY He is. Then He just forgives you....you don't feel sad evil unrighteous anymore. You know you are worthy because of HIM and HIM ALONE! You know you did NOTHING! You know all the sins you did.. you tried to forget forgive you self but the enemy would never let you. As you look at Him.. He does not see it. Your hurt but filled with such joy.. you can't stop crying. Every person on the earth gave up on you.. never truly cared.. Yet you find out He always did and shows you how HE was there every time....oh how did you not see it? oh Jesus..
Yeah thats it.. I quit haha. Just gonna leave it and go. Thanks.. I want to show others the same grace HE shows me. I give to them what He freely gave to me. Jesus I don't have the words you know I don't.. thank you.. I pray the WORLD KNOWS how much you love them
-
1
- Show all
I'm a Spirit filled Christian that follows no man, denomination, or sect, I follow the truth of Gods words alone in the KJV, led by the Holy Spirit of God
I believe the gifts of the Spirit are for today, I speak in tongues
I oppose the pagan roots in observance of Sunday, Christmas, Easter
Gods words teach to observe and keep the Ten Commandments under (Grace) including observance of the 7th day Sabbath
I oppose dispensationalism in a pre-trib rapture, a millennial kingdom on this earth, and dual covenant theology in two peoples of God
I oppose Preterism and Historicism in 1st century fulfillment of the Antichrist and Great Tribulation, these being future events unfulfilled
(My Belief, A Glimpse)
1. There will be a "future" period of "70 literal weeks" as Daniel foretold Dan 9:24-27, this will start with a command to build Jerusalem unto their awaited upon Messiah, in the 70th literal week the Antichrist who will be a Jew/Hebrew will be revealed to the world in Jerusalem, proclaiming to be Messiah God, the 3.5 year tribulation (Starts)
2. The two Witnesses of Rev 11 take the stage for 1260 days the whole tribulation before the beast, bringing all plagues as often as they will Rev 9:3-6 & 16:1-11, as the "sealed" church present on earth is protected Eph 1:13, 4:30, a complete remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt
3. The beast will kill the two witnnes, as they lay dead in the streets of Jerusalem, as the armies gather from the world towards Jerusalem, as the two witnesses are raised, the final hour of earth's temptation takes place in (The Day Of The Lord)
4. Jesus Christ returns in the resurrection of all, and catching up of the believers, as the glorified body is received, as final judgement is complete, the Lord dissolves the heavens and earth by his final judgement in fire, destroying the Antichrist and all that follow him
The wicked are judged to the Lake of Fire
The New Heavens, Earth, Jerusalem, are revealed to the righteous for (Eternity)
I believe the gifts of the Spirit are for today, I speak in tongues
I oppose the pagan roots in observance of Sunday, Christmas, Easter
Gods words teach to observe and keep the Ten Commandments under (Grace) including observance of the 7th day Sabbath
I oppose dispensationalism in a pre-trib rapture, a millennial kingdom on this earth, and dual covenant theology in two peoples of God
I oppose Preterism and Historicism in 1st century fulfillment of the Antichrist and Great Tribulation, these being future events unfulfilled
(My Belief, A Glimpse)
1. There will be a "future" period of "70 literal weeks" as Daniel foretold Dan 9:24-27, this will start with a command to build Jerusalem unto their awaited upon Messiah, in the 70th literal week the Antichrist who will be a Jew/Hebrew will be revealed to the world in Jerusalem, proclaiming to be Messiah God, the 3.5 year tribulation (Starts)
2. The two Witnesses of Rev 11 take the stage for 1260 days the whole tribulation before the beast, bringing all plagues as often as they will Rev 9:3-6 & 16:1-11, as the "sealed" church present on earth is protected Eph 1:13, 4:30, a complete remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt
3. The beast will kill the two witnnes, as they lay dead in the streets of Jerusalem, as the armies gather from the world towards Jerusalem, as the two witnesses are raised, the final hour of earth's temptation takes place in (The Day Of The Lord)
4. Jesus Christ returns in the resurrection of all, and catching up of the believers, as the glorified body is received, as final judgement is complete, the Lord dissolves the heavens and earth by his final judgement in fire, destroying the Antichrist and all that follow him
The wicked are judged to the Lake of Fire
The New Heavens, Earth, Jerusalem, are revealed to the righteous for (Eternity)
Hi.. I'm truly asking.. Truth7t7 posted just two verses (Eternal Security). From that you came away with "Post trib, KJV only, once saved always saved and Christians are Gods chosen people rather than Jews". no clue how you came to that..
Heb 6, Heb 10. Its clear who Paul (Holy Spirit) was writing to. Some times we need to go deeper. One case Jews were saved and would go back and offer a sacrifice for that sin. There is no more sacrifice for that sin. Christ can not die again. So to offer a sacrifice puts christ to open shame. Another is those that have tasted.. tasted was used more then once. They were never saved. Have you only tasted of Christ? Its not about believers. One can taste of God and never be saved. They then make a choice. Some heard know Christ and know He is the only way and never repented yet walk away. There is nothing out there to forgive them. This is what I have learned regarding these two verses. Forgive me I am no writer..
To the OP sorry but 4 verses does not begin to touch grace. In those 4 verses I don't see 100% grace. I have to say I keep trying and I get stuck. Well I start talking about grace and then... well its like you start to walk in this puddle then you don't know how but now its an ocean and its SOOOO wonderful. Sin which leads to grace and His death and.. I get stuck there. HOW how can I keep going with out thinking praising Him for all He has done...there is nothing else that matter then to just tell Him worship Him to know I did nothing what so ever yet some day He will say "I made this for you..what else do you want?" And a endless love forgiveness mercy grace. You first see Him in this life and you run hide you know how evil awful unrighteous you are and how HOLY HOLY HOLY He is. Then He just forgives you....you don't feel sad evil unrighteous anymore. You know you are worthy because of HIM and HIM ALONE! You know you did NOTHING! You know all the sins you did.. you tried to forget forgive you self but the enemy would never let you. As you look at Him.. He does not see it. Your hurt but filled with such joy.. you can't stop crying. Every person on the earth gave up on you.. never truly cared.. Yet you find out He always did and shows you how HE was there every time....oh how did you not see it? oh Jesus..
Yeah thats it.. I quit haha. Just gonna leave it and go. Thanks.. I want to show others the same grace HE shows me. I give to them what He freely gave to me. Jesus I don't have the words you know I don't.. thank you.. I pray the WORLD KNOWS how much you love them
no clue how you came to that..Heb 6, Heb 10. Its clear who Paul (Holy Spirit) was writing to. Some times we need to go deeper. One case Jews were saved and would go back and offer a sacrifice for that sin. There is no more sacrifice for that sin. Christ can not die again. So to offer a sacrifice puts christ to open shame. Another is those that have tasted.. tasted was used more then once. They were never saved. Have you only tasted of Christ?
Its not about believers. One can taste of God and never be saved. They then make a choice. Some heard know Christ and know He is the only way and never repented yet walk away. There is nothing out there to forgive them. This is what I have learned regarding these two verses. Forgive me I am no writer.. To the OP sorry but 4 verses does not begin to touch grace. In those 4 verses I don't see 100% grace. I have to say I keep trying and I get stuck. Well I start talking about grace and then... well its like you start to walk in this puddle then you don't know how but now its an ocean and its SOOOO wonderful. Sin which leads to grace and His death and.. I get stuck there. HOW how can I keep going with out thinking praising Him for all He has done...there is nothing else that matter then to just tell Him worship Him to know I did nothing what so ever yet some day He will say "I made this for you..what else do you want?" And a endless love forgiveness mercy grace. You first see Him in this life and you run hide you know how evil awful unrighteous you are and how HOLY HOLY HOLY He is. Then He just forgives you....you don't feel sad evil unrighteous anymore. You know you are worthy because of HIM and HIM ALONE! You know you did NOTHING! You know all the sins you did.. you tried to forget forgive you self but the enemy would never let you. As you look at Him.. He does not see it. Your hurt but filled with such joy.. you can't stop crying. Every person on the earth gave up on you.. never truly cared.. Yet you find out He always did and shows you how HE was there every time....oh how did you not see it? oh Jesus..
Yeah thats it.. I quit haha. Just gonna leave it and go. Thanks.. I want to show others the same grace HE shows me. I give to them what He freely gave to me. Jesus I don't have the words you know I don't.. thank you.. I pray the WORLD KNOWS how much you love them
The bible clearly teaches (Eternal Secutity) in the two verses below
Hear the gospel, believe the gospel, sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption, it's that simple
Ephesians 1:13KJV
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
If we hear the gospel, believe the gospel, and do not grieve the Holy Spirit we are saved as these verses tell us. What if we decide not to believe the gospel, or we grieve the Holy Spirit, it is OK to do that because we have been sealed because we did that once? Or is it an impossibility to decide not to believe the gospel once we have believed? Are you saying it is impossible for a human to change his mind?
On the 'no longer a sacrifice for sins' .. the context of Hebrews 10 is about the sacrifice of bulls and goats by Jewish people under the old law. It would follow that the 'no longer a sacrifice' is also about animal sacrifice. Jesus being the ultimate lamb who sacrificed once and for all and did away with animal sacrifice.
So a believer.. when the sin.. cant go and do animal sacrifice to please God because Jesus has them in the New Covenant.
The Hebrew believers.. like the Galatian believers, were struggling with the new life in Jesus compared to the self righteous ness of Judaism in the following of old laws.
So a believer.. when the sin.. cant go and do animal sacrifice to please God because Jesus has them in the New Covenant.
The Hebrew believers.. like the Galatian believers, were struggling with the new life in Jesus compared to the self righteous ness of Judaism in the following of old laws.
This Scripture you posted reveals the error found in the Title of your Thread............ Belief can NOT be removed from the salvation experience, but you guys keep trying..........
John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 6:47 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
Acts 16:31 - And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
John 5:24 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 14:6 - Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Romans 10:9 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
John 3:36 - He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 8:24 - I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
Romans 8:28 - And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Ephesians 2:10 - For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Mark 9:23 - Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
1 John 1:7 - But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Mark 16:15-16 - And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. (Read More...)
2 Peter 3:9 - The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Hebrews 11:1-40 - Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. (Read More...)
Hebrews 11:6 - But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 6:47 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
Acts 16:31 - And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
John 5:24 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 14:6 - Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Romans 10:9 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
John 3:36 - He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 8:24 - I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
Romans 8:28 - And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Ephesians 2:10 - For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Mark 9:23 - Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
1 John 1:7 - But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Mark 16:15-16 - And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. (Read More...)
2 Peter 3:9 - The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Hebrews 11:1-40 - Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. (Read More...)
Hebrews 11:6 - But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
-
1
- Show all
Hello again SangWooSuh, I will continue on a bit further with answering your last reply to me (though the question that I asked you earlier remains unanswered).
As for Christians knowing that we've sinned, we have distinct advantages over non-Christians in that department, many of whom have only the law that God wrote on their hearts at birth to distinguish between right and wrong (which is what the world refers to as our conscience) .. e.g. Romans 2:12-16. Christians however, are blessed with far more than that, as our knowledge of sin also comes from the word of God, and from the Holy Spirit as well (who indwells us and convicts us whenever we sin), but as a Christian, I'm sure that you already know that.
*(Amnesia is a condition of forgetfulness concerning past events/memories, not about what is happening in the moment, and even if someone forgot what they learned as Christians, or that they were, in fact, a Christian, they would still know right from wrong because of the law that God wrote in their hearts. If they no longer had a sense of right/wrong, that would far worse than simply having the temporary condition of amnesia, it would mean that they were mentally ill, to the point of not being responsible for their own actions).
This is a small matter (which you may already be aware of), but the OT is where we find the 613 laws. There are an additional 1,050 laws in the NT. You continue:
You are correct, our works do not/cannot save us, the Lord Jesus' works do, and that from first to last. He saves us in two ways actually (by both His life and by His death),
Therefore the Lord Jesus is our ~ONLY~ innocence, our ~ONLY~ righteousness, and the ~ONLY~ atonement and satisfaction for our sins.
So, nothing that ~we~ do merits or is the basis for the grace that we need to go to Heaven ... ~including~ the life that we lead once we've become Christians (though how we choose to live our lives as Christians can help us determine if we are true believers or CINO). "Inherent" sinless perfection is not possible for us (on the side of the grave), nor can it be (therefore) any part of the basis for our salvation (rather "imputed" sinless perfection and imputed righteousness are).
The Apostle John tells us that Christians do not continue to live a lifestyle of unrepentant sin (like we did when we were unbelievers), but where does the Bible ever tell us that we must somehow become as inherently sinless and righteous as Jesus is to be saved
And if that was true, then why does the Bible tell us of our ongoing need to be sanctified/to become more and more Christlike, as well that God is working mightily and continually in us to sanctify us, from justification to Glory
Finally, if we are 'already' as inherently perfect/sinless as the Lord Jesus is, why does the Lord discipline us .. e.g. Hebrews 12:7-11, and why are we told to "work out" our salvation in "fear and trembling" Why would any of that be necessary if we were already made "perfect/sinless"?
Thanks
~Deut
As for Christians knowing that we've sinned, we have distinct advantages over non-Christians in that department, many of whom have only the law that God wrote on their hearts at birth to distinguish between right and wrong (which is what the world refers to as our conscience) .. e.g. Romans 2:12-16. Christians however, are blessed with far more than that, as our knowledge of sin also comes from the word of God, and from the Holy Spirit as well (who indwells us and convicts us whenever we sin), but as a Christian, I'm sure that you already know that.
*(Amnesia is a condition of forgetfulness concerning past events/memories, not about what is happening in the moment, and even if someone forgot what they learned as Christians, or that they were, in fact, a Christian, they would still know right from wrong because of the law that God wrote in their hearts. If they no longer had a sense of right/wrong, that would far worse than simply having the temporary condition of amnesia, it would mean that they were mentally ill, to the point of not being responsible for their own actions).
This is a small matter (which you may already be aware of), but the OT is where we find the 613 laws. There are an additional 1,050 laws in the NT. You continue:
You are correct, our works do not/cannot save us, the Lord Jesus' works do, and that from first to last. He saves us in two ways actually (by both His life and by His death),
1. by the perfectly righteous life that He led before His Father as a man on our behalf and,
2. by His death on the Cross in our stead.
Therefore the Lord Jesus is our ~ONLY~ innocence, our ~ONLY~ righteousness, and the ~ONLY~ atonement and satisfaction for our sins.
2 Corinthians 5
21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
So, nothing that ~we~ do merits or is the basis for the grace that we need to go to Heaven ... ~including~ the life that we lead once we've become Christians (though how we choose to live our lives as Christians can help us determine if we are true believers or CINO). "Inherent" sinless perfection is not possible for us (on the side of the grave), nor can it be (therefore) any part of the basis for our salvation (rather "imputed" sinless perfection and imputed righteousness are).
The Apostle John tells us that Christians do not continue to live a lifestyle of unrepentant sin (like we did when we were unbelievers), but where does the Bible ever tell us that we must somehow become as inherently sinless and righteous as Jesus is to be saved
And if that was true, then why does the Bible tell us of our ongoing need to be sanctified/to become more and more Christlike, as well that God is working mightily and continually in us to sanctify us, from justification to Glory
Philippians 1
6 I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it (carry it on to completion) until the day of Christ Jesus.
Finally, if we are 'already' as inherently perfect/sinless as the Lord Jesus is, why does the Lord discipline us .. e.g. Hebrews 12:7-11, and why are we told to "work out" our salvation in "fear and trembling"
Why would any of that be necessary if we were already made "perfect/sinless"?Philippians 2
12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;
13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
Thanks
~Deut
Require faith,
Whosoever believe will be save, some time believe need a lot of work.
Abraham faith cause him to work from Iran to israel.
Noah faith cause him to work for months to build an arch.
It is grace that God inform Noah to build an arch so he save from the flood, the credit belong to God, but Noah need to obey and work to build an giant arch
Whosoever believe will be save, some time believe need a lot of work.
Abraham faith cause him to work from Iran to israel.
Noah faith cause him to work for months to build an arch.
It is grace that God inform Noah to build an arch so he save from the flood, the credit belong to God, but Noah need to obey and work to build an giant arch
-
1
- Show all