Who should get the credit for your salvation, you or God? Who makes the decision?

Who should get the credit for your salvation, you or God? Who makes the decision?


This is sooooo drop dead simple, folks...

Who should get the credit for your salvation?

Jesus.


Who makes the decision?

God tells every man to choose this day whom He shall serve. God made the decision to give men a decision. Just because man made the choice to accept the Atonement, it in no sense logically follows that Man made the Atonement. Jesus still paid the full price for our sin's and Jesus still gets full credit.

Luke
17:9 Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not.
17:10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

Finally,... I see what Calvinism sprouted from... A bunch of idle men thinking about dead babies.

God gets our decision, it is not by the will of man or the will of the flesh but the will of God, He subdues our will, we come to Him like prisoners of war [His weapons are love] totally defeated.

... poor vain creatures that we are we don't like to be defeated so anon we begin to say that it was all our own will after all. The word repent is a command, "come" is a command. A fiat.

love C. H. Spurgeon

BB was hyper in every way

Exceedingly well explained!

Which camp are you in?

Hello, was thinking of you overnight. How are you recuperating? All over? I pray so. All blessings in Jesus-Yeshua..

Thank you so much. Very kind of you.
I am in very good shape as it relates to the surgery. I would classify it as a complete success, and aside from gaining weight from inactivity, feel pretty good.

how is it both sides of an argument? it a false premise to say that answering the call of God in faith unto salvation is saving yourself.

it is the oldest trick of the devil and many so-called biblical Christians have fallen right into this foolish debate.

man has fallen read in gen 3

God provided salvation Read in the New Testament
God calls man
man answer the call after the Holy Spirit has convicted and he saw his need for God the grace of God saved him through faith. What is the issue? The call the conviction the surrendering the saving happens in such speed and immediately one cannot fully ascertain the power of the Gospel unto Salvation.

One may ask, "Have you been saved?" They never ask, "Have you saved yourself?"
I believe all wh believe, led by the Holy Spirit, always ask the first, for no man can save himself, and I would have no other way. This is the will of our Father, and He is All necessary.

Hello again CorrectiveLens, if that is true, that our progenitors were created by God with a "defect" of some kind that led to their fall into sin and ours (our fallen nature), wouldn't that make God the Author of sin/moral evil (perhaps I am misunderstanding what you are saying however?)

I agree, but I believe this is true, 'not' because of a "defect" from God (that became part of their makeup when He created them), but because they chose to disobey the one commandment that He gave them to obey, and they died (spiritually) when they did. So, while we are made in God's perfect image originally, we are now begotten in the tarnished image of Adam and Eve (because they chose to sin). As God said (through the pen of the preacher),




I think that I'll wait to hear back from you about the above before finishing my reply to the rest of your post (I hope that's ok?).

God bless you!

~Deut

The simple truth is A & E had choice but we do not.

We have no choice we are born with sinful natures, we are bound to sin as a slave is bound to serve his master ... that is the language of Paul.

God does a funny thing, first He does a thing then after He has done it He gets our agreement, He can do that because He is perfect and never makes a mistake.

He created this world and He created man, He created the tree of knowledge, as long as it remained inviolate that tree was our agreement with God.

Likewise He saves us, that is He sets us free and imparts new spiritual life through the gospel ... then He gets our agreement.

We sometimes hear the preacher wimpering and whining for us to decide to believe the gospel ... but in the spirit world God commands us to repent .... and we do.

This reminds me of the apostles asking Christ who was greater. Jesus answered that in the earthly world kings would be like this, but we are speaking of the spiritual world. We are to simply know all about salvation and not ask about the early, fleshly, notion of giving credit. Except, we are to know that the Lord is Holy, our God, our savior, and the key to our eternal life.

Do you mean the doctrine called 'irresistible grace '?

Election is never 'to salvation 'in the bible. Its to service ,purpose and calling.

Romans 11.5 is referring to Jews . The ' even so ' links to what he was Just saying prior .

Jesus Died for the sins of the whole world.1 John 2.2 ( credit due ) He draws all men to him . John 12 .32 . ( credit due ) . He lighteth everyman that comes into the world . John 1.9 ( credit due ) . The Holy Spirit reproves the world of sin of not Believing on Jesus ( credit due ) . It pleases God by the foolishness of the preaching to save those that believe . 1cor 1.21 ( credit due )

Your taking the verse out of context . What is Eph 2.8 ,9 saying in context? Prior it was required to be circumcised and keep the law . This is the context of ' Not of works ' .The context is specifically this . Its not taking about 'works' in any other context. The ' by grace ,through faith is the focus now. Thats how salvation is now appropriated. Thats the prerequisite.
The next verses make it clear, that's the context. Circumcision and keeping the law v Grace through faith .
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
( Works ,as in Circumcision and keeping the law )
10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

11¶Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14¶For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

The church teaches more than Armin and calvin .Previenient grace which is false and irresistible grace, which is also false.
Conviction of the Holy Spirit is necessary for salvation, but occurs to sinners alike, regardless of consequent faith or unbelief. It is not irresistible or unconditionally selective. (Jn. 16:7-11)
Grace is a ubiquitous reality, not a selective force. (Tit. 2:11-13)
Grace is just fine on it’s own as it’s found in scripture. Any modifier other than “free,” such as “sovereign,” “irresistible,” or “prevenient” indicate someone is either confused or attempting to confuse. (Rom. 3:24; 5:15; Jn. 1:16; Tit. 2:11-13)

Hello ThroughFaith, when you refer to what "the church teaches", what part of the visible church are you referring to (IOW, which church and/or denomination are you referring to)

Thanks!

~Deut

it’s an invitation and our response will determine our end it’s not Gods fault if we don’t respond to his call saying Grace doesn’t change anything in the gospel. God has sent the same call
Out to all creatures

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there’s no other path to salvation but to hear and believe the gospel and respond accordingly arguing that grace means nothing else applies is defeating the purpose of those sentences plucked from doctrine talking about Grace

if we have no choice , Godnis responsible for every evil we do , and he is also responsible for every person who suffers and ends up in hell his will is nothing like that everything in the world is not of God

“Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world.

If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:15-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s always been a choice man makes God created us that way , Satan then took our freedom away but Christ has given us the power to choose life again it’s detrimental when “ grace” eliminates the doctrine it belongs in


“I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:19‬ ‭

Not Gods fault a choice offered

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬

that’s an offer and the other side of it

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭

Life is before us and death . If we believe the gospel we’re going to be saved , if we reject the gospel we’re going to be lost and God is waiting for us to make the choice

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭

he’s waiting for us to repent but not forever he’s never going to force our hand he’s told us the truth and given us a way home but not if we constantly reject it