Pentecostalism's sketchy origins

Time Problem, and I am not shure I should do it to someone who calls me a hatefull person. Only because I dont believe in man made doctrine.

If it is built on sinking sand, why is it still going a hundred years later?

Your initial premise is false. The restoration of the truth regarding the baptism of the Holy Spirit goes back at least as far as John and Charles Wesley. It was a key manifestation in the Welsh revival of the early 1900's.

There have been many false manifestations purporting to be the Holy Spirit. There is a great deal of ignorance, which leads to the acceptance of things such as the "Toronto Blessing". The TB was a world wide phenomenon. However, there were more localised versions in places around the world before the 1990's. That includes Wales during the Welsh revival.

There are two dangers. One is to reject the true baptism of the Holy Spirit and so miss out on the blessings that accompany it. The other is to obsess over the Gift and neglect the Giver.

Receiving the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is very simple. There is no need to wait, no need to fast, spend hours in prayer or any other religious gymnastics. The Holy Spirit was poured out by the Lord Jesus, as the result of His exaltation. The Holy Spirit is here, now and available to all who are born again.

Be warned. There are dangers attached to receiving the Holy Spirit. Satan fears those with power and authority. One of his first tricks is to flood the receiver with spiritual pride. And that is one reason that Pentecostals are so easily deceived. It's not the only potential problem, but I think I've said enough for now. I welcome any comments, whether you agree or disagree.

Hello Gideon. This kind of argument is really no argument at all. But it's impossible to refute because it's not based upon scripture or anything substantive; it's just you saying my baptism is true and others' isn't.

So all of pentecostalism in all its forms and expressions is a delusion and false? Is that what you are claiming?

wrong..do not create doctrine out of one verse. cessationists seem to have created their 'tongues' doctrine on this verse in particular..HOWEVER, scripture, begs to differ

Acts 19:6
And when Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking in tongues and prophesying.

1 Corinthians 12:10-11
To another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. Acts 19:6
All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.

1 Corinthians 14:2
For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 12:28
And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:13
Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray for the power to interpret.

1 Corinthians 14:14
For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful.

1 Corinthians 14:18
I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you.

1 Corinthians 14:27
If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret.

1 Corinthians 14:39
So, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:4
The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church.

All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.

I am not now a Pentecostal or charismatic. However, I was the first 15 years I was saved. To me it is a shallow doctrine, and mostly experiential. I prefer to rely on the Bible for my doctrine, and let the Holy Spirit, who is NOT an extrovert, lead and guide me!

In fact, a cult, the Oneness Pentecostals are the ones who perpetuate this non-biblical idea that you aren't saved if you don't speak in tongues as well as a bunch of other heresies, like not believing in the Trinity. I have no problem fellowshipping with Pentecostals, even if they tend to sometimes look down on people who haven't had this so-called second blessing.

I'm not worried about denominational issues that are not central to salvation. But, as I said, Oneness Pentecostals have added to the gospel. That does affect salvation.

And I did once believe I was baptized in the Holy Spirit. But it became apparent I was lying to myself and God. Just because something was written in the Bible, doesn't mean it applies to us, today.

As for why Pentecostalism has lasted for 115 years, I believe that emotionalism sucks people in, plus charismatic leaders suck people into their sect. But no, most Pentecostals are not bad people or even deluded. And God is dealing with us all, and he knows where each believer stands, and where they need to change to be transformed.

How can you say that the gift of tongues is meant for “an audience of unbelievers”, when in the very next verse (1 Corinthians 14:23) it says that if an unbeliever walks in on everyone speaking in tongues they will think you are mad? It actually is endorsing prophesying in the case of unbelievers because they will be convinced (it says) and it says also “falling down on his face he will worship God and report God is in you of a truth.” So prophecy in this case is beneficial for the unbeliever as opposed to tongues.

She speaks in tongues now, but not publicly. We do not encourage that in our meetings.

Ok, no problem yet if you are speaking of all as you have and not fully knowing all who are Pentecostals as you have said about those who are, being ungodly and unbiblical makes you hateful. it is what you said that is hateful not what you don't believe.

many people here have said " I don't believe the Gift of Tongues is for today" Ok so be it no problem. I have not said they are unbiblical I disagree yet they are just as saved as I from what I see in the confession of Christ. I have heard those say the "tongues I see today is not the one in the Bible "

I agree to appoint with that because many have abused the gifts of the Holy Spirit. There are two examples where I agree with those who do not see The gift of tongues for today. I did not say they were of the devil as you have, I have not saved them practicing pagan beliefs as you have. I have yet to even mention their denomination if they even have one. You have not provided anything edifying or testimony of how God is using you today.

Do you pray today for sick people are they healed? You said you leave it in the hands of God. But attack those who believe God heals today.

Yes, Pentecostalism may still be around but sinking sand refers to those who buy into it. They don't have a firm foundation, in my view.

Our friend quoted the verse out of context and didn't include Paul's reference to Isaiah in connection with it. Isaiah said that the presence of foreigners on Israeli soil, speaking foreign language was a sign of impending judgment for them, and yet still they wouldn't listen. Paul compares Isaiah with the contemporary gift of tongues where the presence of believers speaking "barbarian" languages is a sign of the judgment to come, yet the reprobate unbelievers still won't listen, and it is the reprobate hearing tongues spoken and declares that these Christians are all mad. But the honest, sincere seekers after Christ won't think they are mad, but will see the sign of judgment to come, and will turn to Christ for salvation as they hear the tongues and the prophetic interpretation showing that God is really in their midst.

I can't say because I'm not familiar with every form and expression of Pentecostalism.

What I am saying is the doctrine of latter rain is false and the doctrine of speaking in tongues as the outward sign of the baptism of the Holy Spirit is false. Every Pentecostal group I've ever encountered hold to these two doctrines in one form or another. These are the two doctrines Parham believed and were instrumental in what eventually was the "outpouring of the Holy Spirit" on New Year's eve. If there are Pentecostals who don't buy into these sketchy doctrines then I say kudos and blessings to them.

No matter what point he is trying to make, we have to conclude from scripture that the gift of tongues is multifaceted. It does not serve only one use. It is for personal prayer, intercession of another, praise and worship, and for ministering to others with interpretation (and yet still without interpretation if you are speaking in their language having not learned it).

A person cannot argue that tongues is strictly meant for unbelievers or for believers. It serves both under different circumstances.

the gift of tongues is multifaceted

I can't say because I'm not familiar with every form and expression of Pentecostalism.

What I am saying is the doctrine of latter rain is false and the doctrine of speaking in tongues as the outward sign of the baptism of the Holy Spirit is false. Every Pentecostal group I've ever encountered hold to these two doctrines in one form or another. These are the two doctrines Parham believed and were instrumental in what eventually was the "outpouring of the Holy Spirit" on New Year's eve. If there are Pentecostals who don't buy into these sketchy doctrines then I say kudos and blessings to them.

I happen to be a Puritan Reformed Presbyterian, not part of a Charismatic "sect", and who holds to Sola Scriptura, opposed to emotionalism, a firm believer in the trinity, a continuist in terms of the spiritual gifts, and pray in tongues all the time.

So, are you going to say that I am taking a position not central to salvation, shallow, depending solely on the experiential, just because I happen to pray in tongues?

Like me, I believe you are deluded, as I was for 15 years when I sincerely thought I was speaking in tongues. But when I saw the fruit in the lives of members of my Pentecostal congregation, and realized it was not there, I began to examine my own heart and practices.

I pray God will realign you on this matter, and you will recover the sound doctrinal background you obviously have. I think you are probably sincere in your beliefs. I just think you are sincerely wrong.