Unconditional love and the church's approach to homosexuality

Does anyone think that they have the power to change someone’s behavior simply by being nice to them?

That's an interesting question. What do you think is the most effective way of encouraging people to change their behaviour?

When you share the true Gospel, it includes God's command to change behavior. It is called "repentance". It is not you encouraging another to change behavior. It is God commanding a change in attitude, behavior, lifestyle, and direction. A total turnaround.

That's an interesting question. What do you think is the most effective way of encouraging people to change their behaviour?

For years I was of the same opinion that God struck people dead for sinning in the church.

For years I was of the same opinion that God struck people dead for sinning in the church. But through living my own life in learning about His grace and learning about what Jesus has done for us I have "repented" and changed my mind about this. Check out the following except from commentary on this subject;

The bizarre deaths of Ananias and Sapphira have been debated for years. Why did they die? Did God kill them? Why did God kill them? Why is this story in the Bible? Am I supposed to learn something from it? What? Will God kill me if I lie?

Questions like these have provided sermon material for countless preachers behind the pulpit “God killed Ananias and Sapphira because they sinned and if you’re not careful he’ll kill you too! So fear God and behave yourself.”

Has there ever been a more damnable lie inflicted on those whom God loves?

I could give you a hundred scriptures to show you that God did not kill Ananias and Sapphira for their sins and to assure you that he won’t kill you for yours, but three should suffice:

(God) doesn’t punish us as our sins deserve. (Psalm 103:10, CEV)

The punishment that brought us peace was on him… (Isa 53:5b)

God is not counting people’s sins against them. (2 Cor 5:19b)

The good news of Jesus is that our sins and the sins of Ananias and Sapphira were condemned on the cross and there is nothing left to condemn.
God was angry with sin, which is why He poured out His wrath at calvary (Rom 8:3).
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Those who accuse God of killing sinners are confused about the cross. God doesn’t kill sinners; he saves sinners. God doesn’t hate sinners; he loves them!

But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. (Rom 5:8)
If God killed Ananias and Sapphira then the Bible is wrong and Jesus is not the Lamb of God who carried the sins of the world.
There’s no shortage of sinners in this world. Why would God kill one couple and leave the rest alone?

I’ve heard it said that God killed Ananias and Sapphira to warn and purify the infant church. By making an example out of these hypocrites, the church would be filled with a holy fear and kept safe from liars and cheats.
If so, then God failed spectacularly. Liars, cheats and hypocrites have always been with us, and there were plenty in the New Testament church.

I’ve also heard it said that God set up this killing to establish the authority of his apostles. Never mind that Peter had been commissioned by the Lord and filled with the Holy Spirit. Like a kid going through a gangster initiation he had to kill someone to establish his bona fides.
How absurd! How utterly inconsistent with the message Peter had been commissioned to preach. "

I agree 100% with this interpretation of the subject of Ananias and Sapphira based on my understanding of salvation and what Jesus has done for the believer on the cross from the Bible.

Just some thoughts on this subject of God striking us down when we fail. Jesus was already wounded for our transgressions.....The chastisement of our peace was upon Him and by His stripes we are healed. The price was paid., Check out Isa.53

Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?
2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Brother unearthed, In our church all are welcomed,BUT!!!! To be a member of the Church is quite another matter! Members are to be in order! ( 1 Cor 14:40) For visitors there are no requirments whatsoever. But members are disciples!!! And are required to act as such!( Gal 5:9) and ( Gal 5:16-26!!)

As a member of the body of Christ brother,you are accountable! And we as elders make real sure no leven gets in the body! For sin affects us all! Most churches today have no accountability at all,hence why many have lost there candlestick! The body of Christ is no game, it is not a hobby, rather it now becomes a way of life for us. Those who wish to becomes members,go through much teaching so that they know what is expected,there is no doubt in what is taught.

Some leave after a couple of teaching,that is fine,we understand! We do not shame them,nor make them feel lower then any member! We love,but love is not putting up with sin,Love corrects! ( Proverbs 3:12 and Heb 12:6-13!) Sound tough?? LOL Understand!! The narrow road is tough not just to find,but also to walk in truth! Our church has had many wonderful healing,and even a couple of miracles! from Holy Spirit! The reason??

Because our member who all have faults,none of us are perfect!!! BUT WE CARE!!!!! And the Lord knows our hearts!( 1 Samuel 16:7) And members know God's Word! So that is the way God's order is in his Church who are members. Now many can disagree,but when something works,why would you change it??? lol So blessing to you,and I hope you understand that sometimes,truth can also be a tad bit painful!!

It was for me!! LOL Last point,We stay in God's will,and how one may ask?? ( 1 Thess 5:18!!!!) No matter what we are going through,no matter how we may feel,it has nothing with true belief!!! At least to us. May you consider this in both grace,as well as love from the Body of Christ!

Yes but that doesn't answer my question

That's an interesting question. What do you think is the most effective way of encouraging people to change their behaviour?

When you share the true Gospel, it includes God's command to change behavior. It is called "repentance". It is not you encouraging another to change behavior. It is God commanding a change in attitude, behavior, lifestyle, and direction. A total turnaround.

We are told to speak the truth in love, and to demonstrate these truths in our daily lives.

I believe that the way many churches and Christians approach the issue of homosexuality is unbiblical.

This is manipulation and spiritual abuse, and is absolutely not the kind of unconditional love offered by Jesus.

Before anybody says that homosexuality is forbidden by the Bible and that I'm "ignoring scripture"...
Prostitution is also forbidden in the Bible, and we all know how Jesus asked people not to throw stones and cast judgement.
.

Again, sounds good. Can you please give a practical example of "speaking the truth in love"?

It begins and ends with Jesus. Who He is, what He offers, what’s He promises, what He did, and what He expects.

That there is more to this life than what we can see, feel, or touch. There is hope in this life and eternity in the person of Jesus The Christ.

It begins with belief, then into faith that He will do what He has promised.

I understand all that, but there seems to be a lot of fluff and not much substance.
I'm asking you for practical examples of "speaking the truth in love" - see post #113.

I believe that the way many churches and Christians approach the issue of homosexuality is unbiblical.

Churches market themselves as offering unconditional love.
However, all too often they use a bait and switch tactic whereby they offer unconditional love to tempt people in and yet once 'captured', it is discovered that this love and acceptance is conditional on the newcomer changing in whichever way the church 'elders' dictate they should change.
If the church member doesn't change, they may find that they are not included in ways that they were before.

This is manipulation and spiritual abuse, and is absolutely not the kind of unconditional love offered by Jesus.

Before anybody says that homosexuality is forbidden by the Bible and that I'm "ignoring scripture"...
Prostitution is also forbidden in the Bible, and we all know how Jesus asked people not to throw stones and cast judgement.

You see, Jesus uses love to define scripture, and yet humans use scripture to define love.

Jesus reached out to the marginalised, and yet we reach out to condemn.
Perhaps it's in our fallen nature to want to play God?

Lastly, the reason I'm sticking up for homosexuals and using them as an example here is not because I'm gay myself, just as the reason why I'm against racism is not because I am black.