Churches on race issues/CRT

TheIndianGirl · Jun 21, 2021

How has your church handled race issues/topics on racial justice this past year? Did/How did your church address Juneteenth? My church has been talking about race issues/oppression since last summer. I believe most members of my church believe in CRT. I feel that my church is too focused on race issues (my church is about half African-American if that is a reason); my pastor says black/brown people are oppressed etc. or black/brown people do not have freedom etc. It's just a few statements during service (so not devoting a sermon on race issues or anything) but I feel it has been going on too long. My pastor has also made some political comments during election season, saying that the things that are happening is against the Bible etc. If this continues I will definitely leave the church. Is it Biblical to do so? How can I leave the church without giving the main reason (that is, my political views do not align with the the majority of the church members, as a result I do not believe I can fully connect to church members in the long run thus wasting my time). I do not think I can give this reason as I may come across as a racist? I was thinking of just saying I want to try a different denomination (which is also true).

TheIndianGirl · Jun 21, 2021

The main reason I want to leave is that I don't feel "at home" at my church for a variety of reasons (political reasons, not diverse enough/not too many Indians/Asians in the church (basically half white/half black), questions on some of the denomination doctrine (feel like I need to find a "better fit" church); etc.). Are these valid reasons? However, I believe that the church follows sound doctrine for the denomination (traditional Baptist, more African American Baptist) and church leadership is sound.

On political reasons, I have been going to my church for about 8 years and only became aware how the majority feel politically about 3 years ago. Over the past two years, the political leanings became even more evident. On the diversity issue, I came into church when it was half black/half white but always wished it was more diverse; however the diversity has basically remain unchanged for the past 8 years. On the denomination issue, I feel that I have been pushed into Baptist denomination since college since the Baptists had greater presence. Due to a mixture of convenience and presence, I have always ended up going to Baptist churches. However I have some questions on doctrine, partially influenced based on interactions with other Baptists, where I feel I need to check out other denominations.

Sometimes I feel God wants me to "move on" but other times I feel He wants me to stick with this church out of loyalty and just not focus on my unhappiness in some aspects (not the same situation, but like staying in a bad marriage, for example).

DWR · Jun 21, 2021

There was a time when most Baptist were very much alike in teaching and practice.
During my 60 years of being an active member of several Baptist churches, that has changed.
Two different local assemblies that call themselves Baptist can be as different as daylight and dark.
I would suggest that you visit other Baptist churches before you give up on Baptist.
Often small, very small, like 20 or less, are still REAL Baptist.
If one sticks by those old Baptist teachings, we seem to lose the masses.
Our local Baptist church has become so small because we refuse to compromise, we now meet in a home.
While we as individuals may discuss political and race issues, it is never done in a worship service.
When we gather to study and worship, it is about Jesus and our fellowship with Him.
All other things are done on our own time.
If you can not find such a church, check with others in your group. You may be surprised to find 10 or 12 or 20 others that are ready to start another Baptist church in a home.

.

shittim · Jun 21, 2021

Thank you Indian Girl, I have been directed to go to a church not too far from here for the last couple months, it is a full gospel church, planted by a church in Singapore and supportive of international ministries.
Within the last week I am seeing this occurring here as well, a focus on the temporal, the worldly, and less on Christ, first to last.
I am thinking that just as Jesus took the whole of the law and reduced it to love God with all your heart, soul and mind and love your fellow man as yourself, He as well desires we focus on being Him to any and all we are brought in contact with.
When we do so we are not derailed by this or that issue as I believe is happening in the church you mentioned and the one He has directed me to be involved in currently.
In the one I am in the supposed issue of "systemic racism" was brought up, there is no "systemic racism" from what I can see and from an accurate and true study of the history of this nation God had His hand in founding, it appears to me to be another way the adversary seeks to divide us rather than we being one in Christ.
David Barton has done decades of research on the founding of our nation, I wish every person would take this in as it is lightyears beyond the garbage we are being inculcated with from media today-

Lanolin · Jun 21, 2021

I think its undertandable that you might feel out of place somehwere that you dont share a common ancestry but I dont know if it bothers me that much.

I have been to all types of churches, one big mega church had an indian pastor and it was very mulitcultural, I remmeber going to a homegroup and most of the members were indian, and the potlucks were mostly curries.

Funnily enough I dont go to a chinese church cos the dialect my family speaks is not the one spoken by the chinese church where I live.

Ive been to a pacific island church where they had traditonal things like White Sunday, and currently kind of attend an english quaker fellowship where they have this thing called stiff upper lips. some of the members are extremely priveliged to the extent they not are aware of just how priveliged they are.

for example, a certain class of english people kind of assume they can just own anything and its their right if they have the money/capital, and since its been in their families for generations, they dont really understand or relate to the struggles other people face just to get food on the table, and land to live on.

Lanolin · Jun 21, 2021

the thing with slavery is that, when you are set free you need to stop living like a slave and also get free of the mindset of being a slave.
It can be difficult to adjust and start a new life if all youve known is people treating you like a dog. That trauma needs to be healed and that is why apologies and reconcilation go a loooong way to healing for those parties. Just recently, the govt in my country made an apology for the way the police had treated pacific islanders back in the 70s when they raided their homes without warning, and this was racially motivated because the reason was they accused of was they were overstayers, but actually, most overstayers were NOT from the islands. if you had a brown face or a name that wasnt european, you were targeted and humiliated.

This was back in the 70s! and it has taken THIS long for the govt to make amends.

shittim · Jun 21, 2021

If we are truly Christian we understand and walk in the scripture truth that just as Jesus said ALL things are made new, and illuminated in the letters of Paul that we are no longer Jew, nor Greek, male nor female, our ancestry goes to Jesus.
All these derailments to temporal issues, race, heritage, gender, etc. are ways the enemy seeks to steal kill and destroy, we must be one in Christ, just as He taught.
Only a remnant are truly Christian and can pass through the eye of a needle.

surfer14 · Jun 21, 2021

TheIndianGirl said:

I would move on. I did move on. You owe them nothing.

What's interesting about your post though is that your very reasonable actions are constrained by a fear of being called a racist. Take some time to consider the implications of this. Its weaponized language being used as a form of mind control. For you I would suggest just leaving without giving a reason.

Lanolin · Jun 21, 2021

its living in a world of unbeliever where the unbelievers are in power that do make life tough for the believers, so churches do feel the need to address that at times. not sweep it under the rug.

if youve always been denied a home or land, just because you are a certain race, gender or whatever, then its kind of imprtant to raise awareness of this. I wouldnt say petitioning God over such issues is a bad thing.

people that have lived under the eugenics ideology of many countries, or in apartheid, have leigitmate things need to work through. Sometimes its a matter of life and death, or being put in jail. Christians are no stranger to being wrongfully imprisoned and persecuted.

Billyd · Jun 22, 2021

The difficulty that churches have today is how change their methods without changing the gospel message. I believe that it was the Apostle Paul that said that he changed his methods according to those he spoke to, but his message was always Christ and Christ crucified.

shittim · Jun 22, 2021

If we keep our mind stayed on Him we need not derail into social issues.

TheIndianGirl · Jun 22, 2021

Billyd said:

Yes, I remember that about Paul. I believe my church is preaching the Gospel (traditional Baptist church), but there is definitely a political bias and the words are tailored towards a certain political party and their causes. However most the church, probably 90%, leans that way. So what happens is, if you believe the other way, you are missing the point of Christianity.

shittim · Jun 22, 2021

if we belong to Christ, truly belong, we are no longer our own, His thoughts become our thoughts. just as he modeled for us, "I only do what I see the Father do, I only say what I hear the Father say".
I heard a pastor once teach , "our opinions are important, but they don't matter".
In the political realm it is no longer right vs. left so much as right vs. wrong.

Runningman · Jun 22, 2021

TheIndianGirl said:

In my honest opinion, bringing up race in church, or in general, is divisive. Suddenly, it doesn't feel so much like a unified body of Christ, but rather a divided body composed of labels. Labels and classes are what the secular world uses to divide us. They never call for unity unless it is on their terms.

What are God's terms for unity? It is concisely stated in Galatians 3:28:

28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

The secular world are terrified of unity, hence why they never suppory unity. Even if they occasionally call for unity, it's suspicious since there is still institutionalized inequalities promoted by the government, large corporations, and numerous other bodies.

In effect, what we have are the marginalization of groups by showing preference for other groups. By promoting a group it is inferred that other groups aren't worth promoting. That's the institutionalization of inequalities and it's divisive.

I wouldn't fault you for leaving. Find a Galatians 3:28 church.

Gideon300 · Jun 22, 2021

TheIndianGirl said:

CRT and the whole emphasis on race is Satan's attempt to create division and hatred. It is also utterly fallacious. Prior to 1865, blacks could be bought and sold. Not so long ago, you had a black president. That he was not especially good is not the issue. The way it is going, it will be necessary to take the "U" out of the USA. There is a civil war in the USA, just not yet with formal armies. Meanwhile China and Russia rejoice as they watch Americans tear their country apart.

I don't know what you should do. If you decide to leave, I think it would be good to tell them why. Those who think that whites are inherently evil are the racists. Calling out racism is not being racist!

One of the greatest weaknesses in the Western church is disunity. God's blessing is where there is unity (Psalm 133). Many blacks disagree with the sentiment that somehow blacks are oppressed. When you look at those who are stirring this pot, expecially BLM, you will find an agenda that is fundamentally antichrist.

shittim · Jun 22, 2021

The northern colonies were the first in the world to abolish slavery, we faound a great civil war to abolish slavery. These facts are lost to those who wish to continue to ignore truth and divide His creation along racial lines.
I encourage all to take in this highly informative history heavily supported by the hundreds and thousands of original documents that put to rest the lie of systemic racism in the U.S.

Gideon300 · Jun 22, 2021

TheIndianGirl said:

I faced a similar dilemma, but for entirely different reasons. I was very much involved in church activities, going to every meeting and hoping to become a minister in some way. I had a major clash with the pastor - a true control freak, type A personality, who was driving people instead of leading them. I had a dream from the Lord that the place was going to fall apart. I shared this with the pastor. It made no difference. I am loyal by nature, but God wanted me to move on. It was one the hardest decision I've ever had to make. I prayed earnestly then pulled the pin. A few years after, the church was scattered and many lives were deeply affected. Some told me that I was wise to get out before it fell apart.

In all decisions, we need to seek the peace of Christ: Colossians 3:15, Amplified

"Let the peace of Christ [the inner calm of one who walks daily with Him] be the controlling factor in your hearts [deciding and settling questions that arise]. To this peace indeed you were called as members in one body [of believers]. And be thankful [to God always]."

shittim · Jun 22, 2021

Well said, I am of a mind something like that may happen where I have been led, I will stay and pray without ceasing in the divine prayer language for the ministry, God didn't plant it to fail, but when I have done all I can do He will guide me elsewhere if that is His will. The pastor is young, and needs the older ones for the maturity they offer.

Billyd · Jun 24, 2021

shittim said:

The 13th amendment was ratified and became a part of the constitution when Georgia signed it on December 6, 1865. The last three states to abolish slavery officially (approve the thirteenth amendment) were Delaware (1901), Kentucky (1976), and Mississippi (1995). Conviction of a crime is an exception to the 13th amendment abolishment of slavery. That exception remains in effect today.

shittim · Jun 24, 2021

http://www.masshist.org/endofslavery/index.php

Churches on race issues/CRT

TheIndianGirl

Guest

TheIndianGirl

Guest

DWR

Guest

Senior Member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Banned

Well-known member

Senior Member

Senior Member

TheIndianGirl

Guest

Senior Member

Banned

Well-known member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member