When Does the New Heaven, New Earth, New Jerusalem come into being?

Ahwatukee · Jul 6, 2021

Just as there are controversies on many Biblical end-time events, there is also one regarding when the New Heaven, New Earth and New Jerusalem will come into being. One is that the they will come into being after the Millennial kingdom and after the Great White Throne Judgment. However, there is also the belief held by some that they will come into being after Christ returns to the earth to end the age and at the onset of the Millennial Kingdom.

What are your views on this and what scriptures do you have for either supporting or rejecting your position?

Pilgrimshope · Jul 7, 2021

I believe it has been in the works for a long while since God began to speak it forth.

“For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what strikes me , is that it’s a new heaven and a new earth. So what I think is going on is the kingdom in heaven is established now and is being filled with believers from every nation as they find the lord in life and pass away in the over flesh I believe they are gathered in sion where the heavenly Jerusalem exists now

And then To get to your question , I would say it is after the ridge of the east and when the battle of Armageddon comes forth at that point we can expect Christs return and victory , the salvetion of the church being gathered in the word with the lord in glory

and after a time the kingdom in heaven that is full of spiritual beings who were saved but left thier flesh behind , will be restored upon the new earth

so at the conclusion of Armageddon , after a time of cleansing the restoration will Occur it’s actually something all the prophets wrote of

a restoration of the kingdom upon earth after all has been brought under the rule of Christ believers redeemed and made perfect , the wicked destroyed in the flame forever

You know how Christ was taken into heaven ? Ot was always the plan until he returns and restores the kingdom of heaven filled with the redeemed of the lord upon the new earth

“Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He’s going to restore creation to its glory before sin when man dwelt with God and we were unashamed in his presence

restoring creation to the beginning before we sent it off course it will happen after Christ returns to father the elect left still , and the destruction of the earth by cleansing fire.

then heaven will Meet earth again and creation will be restored through Christ

Ahwatukee · Jul 7, 2021

Pilgrimshope said:

Hello Pilgrimshope,

Thank you for responding. So, to be clear, when do you think the following will take place in the chronological order of end-time events?

"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

* New Heaven

* New Earth

* New Jerusalem coming down from God out of heaven

Going back to the title of this thread, When do you believe the above event takes place in relation to the chronological order of end-time events? What I mean is, at some point this current heaven and earth are going to pass away as Revelation 21:1 states. So when do you believe this will take place? When does the new heaven, new earth and New Jerusalem begin, after the tribulation when Christ returns to the earth to end the age and at the onset of the thousand years? Or, does it come into being after the thousand years and after the great white throne judgment?

Ahwatukee · Jul 7, 2021

Pilgrimshope said:

I believe it has been in the works for a long while since God began to speak it forth.

“For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what strikes me , is that it’s a new heaven and a new earth. So what I think is going on is the kingdom in heaven is established now and is being filled with believers from every nation as they find the lord in life and pass away in the over flesh I believe they are gathered in sion where the heavenly Jerusalem exists now

And then To get to your question , I would say it is after the ridge of the east and when the battle of Armageddon comes forth at that point we can expect Christs return and victory , the salvetion of the church being gathered in the word with the lord in glory

and after a time the kingdom in heaven that is full of spiritual beings who were saved but left their flesh behind , will be restored upon the new earth

so at the conclusion of Armageddon , after a time of cleansing the restoration will Occur it’s actually something all the prophets wrote of

a restoration of the kingdom upon earth after all has been brought under the rule of Christ believers redeemed and made perfect , the wicked destroyed in the flame forever

You know how Christ was taken into heaven ? Ot was always the plan until he returns and restores the kingdom of heaven filled with the redeemed of the lord upon the new earth

“Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He’s going to restore creation to its glory before sin when man dwelt with God and we were unashamed in his presence

restoring creation to the beginning before we sent it off course it will happen after Christ returns to father the elect left still , and the destruction of the earth by cleansing fire.

then heaven will Meet earth again and creation will be restored through Christ

At the expense of high jacking this thread, neither the dead, nor the living will leave their flesh behind when the resurrection takes place. Jesus is our example in that, when He rose, it was in the same body that He was crucified in, albeit raised immortal and glorified. The word 'anastasis' translated as 'Resurrection' means to 'stand back up again in a physical body.' When the dead are resurrected, God will reconstruct and reanimate the bodies of those who have died, except they will be immortal and glorified.

Pilgrimshope · Jul 7, 2021

Ahwatukee said:

heaven is already new is my opinion and the earth will be made new and populated with Gods people who were redeemed through Christs gospel sent out two thousand years ago give or take

after Jesus returns not before the renewal comes with his return afterwards but heaven has already been made new this tribulation and rule of Satan on earth persecuting Gods people takes place on earth until his return from heaven and then

Things are made new on earth and heavens population will inhabit the earth were promised.

so heaven is already new and the kingdom is rolling , it has a population who lived on earth does and are now living and serving God in heaven until Christ returns to earth

the earth will be made new after the tribulation runs its course and then Jesus returns. To renew everything with what’s already in heaven

Pilgrimshope · Jul 7, 2021

Ahwatukee said:

brother we have a better body made for heaven we have no use for the dead body of sin that she’s and wasted away

flesh is for this fallen sinful world to is is what we are looking forward to glory my brother , incorruptible glory

Jesus flesh raised because it’s e perfect atonement without sin that’s not our flesh bro

but here’s what we’re blessed to hope for Heavenly bodies made for Gods kingdom of eternal life

“There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:40, 42-44, 47-49‬ ‭

we’re going to part our bodies and leave them behind but we have bodies promosed of glory made for the heavenly places

remember Jesus was transfigured ? Who knows exactly but it’s not going to be flesh and blood inheriting the heavenly kingdom but a better body designed for life and glory and gods presence , not the one now it’s only temporary we have a spiritual form of the same body a glorified one of we are so blessed by the lords great mercy , as to attain to the resurrection and new world we are going to have new eternal bodies brother and I can’t wait because mines broken lol

Absolutely · Jul 7, 2021

I find it fascinating that the new jerusalem will be illuminated by the Father and Son

Edify · Jul 7, 2021

Pilgrimshope said:

The 'heaven' it speaks of here is actually the atmosphere(1st heaven). The reason it needs to be replaced is because it's cursed with the earth. Thus both of them are made brand new.

The 2nd & 3rd heaven is uncorrupted, so they don't need to be replaced.

Ahwatukee said:

This is correct.

Another reason for the new heaven & earth is because the New Jerusalem is somewhere between 1200 - 1500 miles square, so there's no room for it on our present earth or atmosphere..

Roughsoul1991 · Jul 7, 2021

Ahwatukee said:

Well I believe a new Kingdom will be set up after the 7 year tribulation and Christ will reign within it for 1000 years. Then at the end of that age both the Heavens and Earth will pass away to bring about the new Jerusalem.

Revelation 20:7-10
English Standard Version
7 And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea. 9 And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them, 10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

The beloved city is the Jerusalem that Christ reigns in for a 1000 years. Then comes chapter 21.

Revelation 21
English Standard Version
The New Heaven and the New Earth
21 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

But the specific new Jerusalem does come in after the new Heaven and Earth.

Runningman · Jul 7, 2021

Ahwatukee said:

According to 2 Peter 3:10-13, the day of the Lord (DOTL) is characterized by the melting of the elements with fervent heat and loud noises. Afterwards, they are replaced with a new heaven and new earth.

The purpose of the DOTL is to destroy the heavens and earth and judge ungodly people. (2 Peter 3:7)

The purpose for the delay of the DOTL is to allow ungodly people to come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:8)

Conclusively, it seems most likely the new heavens and new earth are probably destroyed after the 1,000 year MK, but before the GWTJ, then remade once the judgment is complete.

reneweddaybyday · Jul 7, 2021

Ahwatukee said:

I believe new heaven / new earth come into being after the thousand years and after the great white throne judgment.

Concerning New Jerusalem, Rev 21:27 tells us there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie.

In Rev 20:7-8, we see that after the thousand year reign, satan is loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations.

Then, in Rev 20:10, we see the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone.

After satan is cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, the great white throne judgment takes place (Rev 20:11-14).

If new heaven / new earth come into being before the thousand year reign, then what we are told in Rev 21:27 cannot be true because satan cannot enter to defile, work abomination, or make a lie (deceive - Rev 20:7-8).

Revelation 21:

23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.

27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Ahwatukee · Jul 7, 2021

Edify said:

The word 'ouranos' translated as 'heaven' can mean 'the atmosphere, the sky, the starry heavens, the spiritual heavens.' So, since the verse is speaking about a new Earth, then your conclusion could be correct in that 'heaven' here is most likely speaking about the atmosphere/sky associated with the earth and not God's dwelling place.

Now in regards to the starry heavens, i.e. all of the stars and galaxies out there, one would have to wonder that since the scripture states that there will be no night there and no need for the sun or moon, if the starry heavens will also be affected. After all, there is space junk on Mars, Venus, Titan and other planets and moons.

Pilgrimshope · Jul 7, 2021

Edify said:

yeah bro I was talking about this part

“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this heaven

“The Lord is in his holy temple, the Lord's throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭11:4‬ ‭KJV‬

this place where the church is with the lord

“After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭7:9-11, 13-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That place that’s made new already Where they sing of salvstion and weep for the earth as you see here heaven is already new and the kingdom is in swing in heaven but the earth is going through a trial

“And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them.

Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

When his time runs out the kingdom in heaven will return to earth and usher in eternity

Ahwatukee · Jul 7, 2021

Roughsoul1991 said:

I also agree with this in that, after God's wrath (tribulation) has been poured out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, the Lord then returns to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom, which will be a literal thousand years. After the end of the thousand years and after the great white throne judgement, is when I believe that the new heaven, new earth and new Jerusalem will be implemented. This is also the chronological order in Revelation.

Revelation 20:7-10
English Standard Version

Click to expand...

Yes I also agree in that, the camp of God's people, the city that He loves which they surround, is referring to the Jerusalem on this present earth during the millennial kingdom and not the New Jerusalem. I believe that the new heaven, earth and Jerusalem are implemented after the millennial kingdom and after the great white throne judgment. Again, this is the chronological order in Revelation.

Roughsoul1991 · Jul 7, 2021

Ahwatukee said:

I also agree with this in that, after God's wrath (tribulation) has been poured out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, the Lord then returns to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom, which will be a literal thousand years. After the end of the thousand years and after the great white throne judgement, is when I believe that the new heaven, new earth and new Jerusalem will be implemented. This is also the chronological order in Revelation.

Yes I also agree in that, the camp of God's people, the city that He loves which they surround, is referring to the Jerusalem on this present earth during the millennial kingdom and not the New Jerusalem. I believe that the new heaven, earth and Jerusalem are implemented after the millennial kingdom and after the great white throne judgment. Again, this is the chronological order in Revelation.

I agree. It is in plain text of Scripture and within the timeframe listed in Scripture.

Nehemiah6 · Jul 7, 2021

Ahwatukee said:

If we take the events in Revelation 20 and 21 chronologically, everything falls into place. So what we see there is :

1. The Millennium
2. The Battle of Gog and Magog
3. Satan cast into the Lake of Fire
4. The Great While Throne Judgment
5. (The burning up of the earth and its atmosphere mentioned in 2 Peter)
6. The New Heavens and the New Earth
7. The New Jerusalem descending from Heaven.

Ahwatukee · Jul 7, 2021

reneweddaybyday said:

This has been my conclusion as well. I started this thread because there are expositors, scholars and theologians and every one in between who believe that the new heaven and new earth take place at the onset of the millennial kingdom. However, there are problems with this position. For example in Revelation 20:11, which takes place after the thousand years and at the onset of the great white throne judgment (GWTJ), it states that the "The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them." This would have to be referring to this current heaven and earth which are going to pass away, i.e. cease to exist and not the new heaven and earth. This would also demonstrate that at the time of the GWTJ the new heaven and earth have not yet come into existence.

Another problem that arises is that Revelation 21:4 states "there will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the former things have passed away." My point being is that if the new heaven, new earth and new Jerusalem were to be implemented at the onset of the thousand year reign of Christ, then during that time entire thousand years and beyond there will be no more death. Yet, at the end of the thousand years, all of those people that Satan deceived are killed when God rains down fire upon them. This would demonstrate that death, pain and sorrow have not yet passed away.

Ahwatukee · Jul 7, 2021

Nehemiah6 said:

Hi Nehemiah6!

I completely agree with this order, which has been my own conclusion and is the chronological order found in Revelation. There are numerous problems with the idea that the new heaven, earth and Jerusalem begin at the onset of the millennial kingdom, some of which I have mentioned in some of the other posts.

Nehemiah6 · Jul 7, 2021

Ahwatukee said:

If we regard the Millennium as a "preview" of the New Heavens and the New Earth, it fits perfectly. However since there is unrighteousness after the Millennium, God has to deal with that, after which there is a supernatural fiery cleansing of the earth and the first heaven (possibly even the second heaven since there are man-made objects floating around in space). Everything on the surface of the earth (probably even below the surface) will be wiped out.

What we are not told is where God will take the righteous earth-dwellers during that time of cleansing, but the earth will be repopulated and the kingdom of Israel will be established on earth for eternity in the New Earth. The New Jerusalem will be the heavenly body which replaces the sun and gives light to the earth. God has not revealed to us absolutely everything, but we can certainly connect the dots as far as possible.

Pilgrimshope · Jul 7, 2021

Edify said:

it has to be remade because we defiled creation serving satans will in the earth , just as israel worshipped false gods in Jerusalem so it was laid low the earth also follows suit both will
Be destroyed because of mankind’s dominion

“The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again. And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

but both are restored through Christs dominion first heaven and then upon his second coming a new earth after sin is destroyed and heaven comes to earth and reunites creation as it was in the beginning before we followed sin into destruction

When Does the New Heaven, New Earth, New Jerusalem come into being?

When does the New Heaven, New Earth and New Jerusalem come into being?

After the tribulation and at the beginning of the thousand years?

After the thousand years and after the Great White Throne Judgment?

No sure

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