Why Daniel's 70th week must be in the future

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Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#61
27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’[h] In the middle of the ‘seven’[i]he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple[j] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.[k]”[l]

Until the end that is decreed

To me the last of 7th week will be the end

A week is 7 years

So it is not happen yet
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,777
113
#62
Absolutely none of this is true. Nor is any of it in the passage.
If you are unable to connect the dots that is something you have to deal with. This is all in Scripture.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,777
113
#63
This assumption is enough to drive you into permanent irreversable error....
So say you. That is not an assumption but a reasoned conclusion.
 
Oct 23, 2020
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#64
Irreversible
This assumption is enough to drive you into permanent irreversable error...

You must not make such assumptions when studying the passage.
Indeed. It is very hard to understand how a Messianic Prophecy like Daniel 9 - obviously all
now fulfilled and all amply explained by Paul in Hebrews - can generate such
an aberrant and tortured misreading amongst so many people.
The really worrying thing is that the people who hold the antichrist view
call themselves Christians.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
2,113
113
#65
"I promise you - it is true."

The word 'covenant' is not referring to a treaty with Israel.
While I agree with you that "treaty" isn't necessarily the meaning here... (and likely is NOT)...


Daniel 9:27a - "[confirm/strengthen covenant] with the many"


...Consider:

"lā-rab-bîm" = "with the many [H7227]"


(H7227 - rab)


4x (in this form: "lā-rab-bîm" [as in our verse, here]) -

--Esther 4:3 - Prep-l, Art | Adj-mp

--Isaiah 53:11 - Prep-l, Art | Adj-mp

--Daniel 9:27 - Prep-l, Art | Adj-mp

--Daniel 11:33 - Prep-l, Art | Adj-mp


so...

Preposition-l = l 9997/le ("with regard to")
Definite Article 9998/hē ("the")
Adjective - masculine plural ("many")


... "with [/with regard to] the many"

[someone correct me if I'm wrong on the Hebrew of this word... I'm not a Hebrew expert... = D ]




From what I understand, the phrase "the many" (OT; with definite article) is used to refer to Israel [/those of Israel].
 
Oct 23, 2020
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#66
Of course the other problem with the antichrist rejection of Daniel's 70 weeks is that the prophecy is sealed at the end of 70 weeks, not at the end of 69 weeks.

'70 weeks are determined ...............to seal up..............the prophecy'

God has ordered that the prophecy cannot be understood until 70 weeks have elapsed.
Therefore the error of the 69 week camp is egregious in the extreme.

God sealed the prophecy for this very purpose.

It is technically impossible to posit an explanation of 69 weeks if the entire 70 weeks have not elapsed.
 
Jun 12, 2021
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#67
Of course the other problem with the antichrist rejection of Daniel's 70 weeks is that the prophecy is sealed at the end of 70 weeks, not at the end of 69 weeks.

'70 weeks are determined ...............to seal up..............the prophecy'

God has ordered that the prophecy cannot be understood until 70 weeks have elapsed.
Therefore the error of the 69 week camp is egregious in the extreme.

God sealed the prophecy for this very purpose.

It is technically impossible to posit an explanation of 69 weeks if the entire 70 weeks have not elapsed.
If you are God's elect and received the Holy Spirit. All you got to do is pray to God for understanding, its that simple... Nonelects will be under strong delusion.
 
Oct 23, 2020
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#68
If you are God's elect and received the Holy Spirit. All you got to do is pray to God for understanding, its that simple... Nonelects will be under strong delusion.
This has nothing to do directly with the Holy Spirit, but is rather about a gross heresy that has gripped the Church and that a lot of Christians fall for. (It is actually a very serious apostasy, as it is used to prop up an entire anti-semitic eschatology.)

What is a 'nonelect'?
 
Oct 23, 2020
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#70
"to seal up [H2856]"

...what does it mean "to seal up [H2856--same word] sin" ? (same verse)


https://biblehub.com/text/daniel/9-24.htm
hatam:-

11 For you this whole vision is nothing but words sealed [hatam] in a scroll. And if you give the scroll to someone who can read, and say, “Read this, please,” they will answer, “I can’t; it is sealed [hatam].” 12 Or if you give the scroll to someone who cannot read, and say, “Read this, please,” they will answer, “I don’t know how to read.”
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#71
The text does not say, "To finish their transgression" but rather "to finish the transgression" or simply "to finish transgression".

When interpreting Scripture, we need to consider all possible meanings of key words. To "finish" something can mean to bring it to an end, or to bring it to completion. The completion of the Jews' transgression was their rejection of their Messiah.

My NIV has a footnote on the word "finish": "or restrain". That would also work for a first-century fulfillment, as Jesus' ministry did bring in restraint of transgression through the power of the Holy Spirit in believers.
Actually it does,
Dan 9 starts of with Daniel confessing the sins of him and the people, and acknowledging that the reason they are here is because of their transgressions according to the law of Moses (Lev 26) his prayer being FOR his people, his holy city etc..



Open shame belongs to us, O Lord, to our kings, our princes and our fathers, because we have sinned against You. 9 To the Lord our God belong compassion and forgiveness, [d]for we have rebelled against Him; 10 nor have we obeyed the voice of the Lord our God, to walk in His teachings which He set before us through His servants the prophets. 11 Indeed all Israel has transgressed Your law and turned aside, not obeying Your voice; so the curse has been poured out on us, along with the oath which is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, for we have sinned against Him.

O Lord, hear! O Lord, forgive! O Lord, listen and take action! For Your own sake, O my God, do not delay, because Your city and Your people are called by Your name.”

then as Gabriel gives his answer, he mentions exactly what Daniel is praying about.

24, Seventy [t]weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression,

your people, to finish the transgression

daniel prayeyed for his people who were and continued to transgress all the way to 70 ad and continue today,

Gabriels answer was that 70 weeks were determined for his people, to finish that transgression.

they are still in sin, to much prophecy states when the messiah comes Israel will repent and finished THEIR transgression, and sin no more to ignore the fact that this is not only talking of them, we have words which say it will come true

As for “to restrain” in the NIV

please note that klh is the root used in Dan 9


1. Hebr. does not make a sharp morphological distinction between klh “to cease” and klʾ “to hold back,” as the numerous assimilations in inflection indicate (BL 375, 424; KBL 436a). Both roots occur in Ug. (WUS no. 1311: kla “to close”; no. 1317: kly “to be at an end”); Akk. kalû, which also combines the meaning “to cease” with the basic meaning “to hold back,” should probably be treated as *klʾ (GAG §105c; AHw 428f.). Like Akk., Aram. also knows only the (common Sem.) root klʾ, in the senses “to hold back” and “to come to an end.” In Neo-Pun., klh pi. is not attested with certainty (KAI no. 145.11; DISO 121).
A glance at the semantic spheres of the two verbs indicates that they are closely related semasiologically. There seems to be an elemental semasiological process wherein the notion of “limiting” and “ending” develops from the basic meaning of “holding back” and “blocking off”; cf. Ger. “schliessen” and Lat. “claudere” with the same characteristic double meaning “to enclose” and “to close off.” A corresponding semasiological process lies behind the antonym → ḥll hi.: “to unloose, release” > “to begin”; cf. e.g., Eng. “to open” and Lat. “aperire” for the beginning of talks.
The relationship between the two verbs in Hebr. also receives its simplest explanation through the assumption that “to cease” developed secondarily from the local, more original “to hold back,” and that the expansion in meaning resulted in a corresponding, although not always strictly executed, morphological division of the roots.

and no matter which way we want to use it, it still concerns his people. Not you or I. in 70 Ad. Isreal was defeated according to Lev 26,

lev 26: 27 ‘Yet if in spite of this you do not obey Me, but act with hostility against Me, 28 then I will act with wrathful hostility against you, and I, even I, will punish you seven times for your sins. 29 Further, you will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters you will eat. 30 I then will destroy your high places, and cut down your incense altars, and heap your [h]remains on the [i]remains of your idols, for My soul shall abhor you. 31 I will [j]lay waste your cities as well and will make your sanctuaries desolate, and I will not smell your soothing aromas. 32 I will make the land desolate so that your enemies who settle in it will be appalled over it. 33 You, however, I will scatter among the nations and will draw out a sword after you, as your land becomes desolate and your cities become waste.

It’s all about davids people and holy city, it was laced waste after the messiah was cut off, and the people were scattered all around the Roman Empire, just as promised,
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#72
The most important thing to know is that this is a Messianic Prophecy - I would say the greatest Messianic Prophecy.
(Apparently the Rabbis try to shield Jews from Daniel - go figure)

It would seem that a large portion of professing Christians, since they believe the prophecy has not been fulfilled,
then also deny that Christ has come.

Of course they will say:
"No - he came in the 69th week"

But the prophecy tell us that 70 weeks are required in this Messianic Prophecy, not 69 weeks.

Sad really
Messiah comes at the end of the 69 week then is cut off

So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a [x]decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until [y]Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks

62 plus 7 equals 69

we are told he is then cut off “killed”

Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing,

the next step given is the people of the prince will destroy the city and sanctuary, fulfilled in 70 AD
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#73
@Nehemiah6 - brother - please read the following web page - it has an explanation that I sincerely hope will help you to better understand what Daniel 9:24-27 is actually saying:

http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Seventy_Weeks.html

The passage is strictly about:

~ 'the time Israel has left'

~ the work of Christ during His First Coming

~ the events circa 70 A.D.

You must look at it in the context of the whole chapter.

There is no futuristic period.

(from Daniel's POV, yes; from our POV, no)

There is no antichrist figure.

The words 'he' (all three) in verse 27 are referring to Christ.

"I promise you - it is true."

The word 'covenant' is not referring to a treaty with Israel.

Christ was crucified in the middle of the 70th week.

The 490 years were unbroken.

The 490 years ended in 34 A.D.

It is 100% fulfilled.

Please read it brother.

See if the explanation helps you to understand it better.
There has been no abomination of desolation.

the events of 70 Ad occure after the messiah being cut off, and before the prince of the people who destroyed the city confirms a 1 week covenant of some sort, before he break Ed his own covenant in the middle, and occured before great tribulation as Stated by Jesus in matt 24, which will only be ended by the return of Christ
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#74
He is not; rather, he is trying to get you to see the plain meaning of the passage - what it actually says.


Because, it has...


There is no antichrist in the passage.
Scripture states that the little horn will commit the abomination of desolation, it also states he will confirm a covenant for a week, he will be the final form of the “Roman” beast. He will commit many atrocities, and he will be personally defeated by Christ at his return,

this is the “prince who is to come” of Daniel 9
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#75
No it does not - not in the slightest.

No commonality.

Totally different.
Actually it, does, as well as Dan 2 and Dan 7 and many other passages
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#76
This assumption is enough to drive you into permanent irreversable error...

You must not make such assumptions when studying the passage.
Or maybe your assumption drives you into permanent error?

why are you being so direct on a non salvic doctrine, especially When you can’t prove your view is correct, it’s your interpretation that’s it
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#77
The finishing of the transgression was the crucifixion of Christ.
Nope

Israel is still in sin, look at the world, still in sin

no transgression has been completed,
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#78
Irreversible


Indeed. It is very hard to understand how a Messianic Prophecy like Daniel 9 - obviously all
now fulfilled and all amply explained by Paul in Hebrews - can generate such
an aberrant and tortured misreading amongst so many people.
The really worrying thing is that the people who hold the antichrist view
call themselves Christians.
Because it’s not a messianic prophecy, it’s a prophecy in answer to daniels prayer concerning daniels people and city

messiah is just mentioned that he will come and he will be killed after 69 weeks, the rest of the prophecy concerns Israel Jerusalem and the temple
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#79
Of course the other problem with the antichrist rejection of Daniel's 70 weeks is that the prophecy is sealed at the end of 70 weeks, not at the end of 69 weeks.

'70 weeks are determined ...............to seal up..............the prophecy'

God has ordered that the prophecy cannot be understood until 70 weeks have elapsed.
Therefore the error of the 69 week camp is egregious in the extreme.

God sealed the prophecy for this very purpose.

It is technically impossible to posit an explanation of 69 weeks if the entire 70 weeks have not elapsed.
Yep

and the 70 weeks have yet to end, Christ has not yet returned, hence prophecy is still to be completed
 
Oct 23, 2020
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#80
Because it’s not a messianic prophecy, it’s a prophecy in answer to daniels prayer concerning daniels people and city

messiah is just mentioned that he will come and he will be killed after 69 weeks, the rest of the prophecy concerns Israel Jerusalem and the temple
Yes. I agree EG.
It is indeed a prophecy to Israel.
Perhaps it would have been more accurate to say:

The most important thing is that it is A Messianic Prophecy to Israel