Is it too late?

Yes, megachurches grow larger and larger; Christian conferences abound and grow more prolific every year; ecumenicism is on the rise; contemporary Christian music is bigger ($$$) and more popular now than ever. But is it for the good?

People like Rick Warren praise the pope (from "papa," Holy Father

), saying of Catholics in a tweet: "If you love Jesus, we may serve on different teams, but we're in the same league of receiving His grace and forgiveness"; Louie Giglio of Passion Church and his wife meeting and kissing the Pope. This is but the tip of the iceberg.

Church is nothing but big business. No one is accountable for sin. If someone is good for business they're in, regardless of whether they teach heresy or not. Formerly conservative preachers like John MacArthur have apparently swallowed the Kool-Aid.

Have we already gone over the cliff? If so, what should true and faithful believers do? You can't rebuke. People like Rick Warren are above rebuke. You can't rebuke the contemporary Christian music industry or their artists, they don't care, all they want is $$$ and more of it. If you try to warn people they'll tell you you're crazy.

I believe the time has come for worldly christianity (lower case intentional) to be exposed for what it is. Much of what's going on is deliberately designed to cater to the younger generation. A whole generation is growing up thinking this is what Christianity is.

I didn't spend a lot of time on this post so it may not be that eloquent; it's a heartfelt plea that hopefully the Lord will use for some good.

Post modernism has taken hold of a lot of parts of christianity, along with materialism and emotionalism.

My brother was talking about a new revival going on.. I am thinking. .. is it another wave of charismania?

wattie, are you and I the only ones who have noticed what's going on? Has everyone else swallowed the Kool-Aid? Is the apostacy upon us?

Sometimes kissing can be a greeting in certain places. Could kissing the Pope been a greeting in this case?

What do you find wrong in the Christian music industry specifically? Does it have to do with theology or what the music is teaching through lyrics? What songs do you find error in?

One of the first evaluations I make of any singer or singing group is how they dress. If the dress is provocative and unfit, then I will not listen to the music no matter what the words of the songs are. If you have someone only half dressed singing "Amazing Grace," do the listeners hear the words or see the person?

The same record companies who produce secular artists have arms that produce christian artists. They aren't looking for people with sound theology but those who can make them lots of money. Artists know this and they're willing to compromise to make it big. Many artists use contemporary christian music to get their foot in the door and segue into mainstream. They hesitate to even be called a "christian" artist.

There's no question that a lot of contemporary christian music is quite good and inspirational but yes, there's a theology associated with many of these artists; they have church sponsors and the theology of most of them isn't solid. Many ccm artists are catholic. That wouldn't bother catholics I suppose but many would be shocked to learn their foavorite artist is catholic or supports catholicism.

I'm out of time right now but maybe I can get more into this tomorrow with specifics.

God bless.

Well, I've been affected..

My wife has just divorced me, and I've struggled with thinking o wanted the divorce to. My faith in Christ .. the Word saying don't divorce her ... so she did the divorcing, but my emotions saying.. I dont want to be with her anyway.

Yeah so now.. trying to get back to Christs Word. I see all the trouble going and feel muted because I fail in similar things.

My own church is kinda bible Baptist ..with a handful of us.. so there is no hiding. I wish yo be faithful in the future so my testimony is restored

sorry to hear that.

just keep the faith in Christ, and stay in the Word.

we all come up short at times, and feeling awful about failing.

as i heard it said one time- feeling terrible about a failure shows that one loves the Lord and is so upset about disappointing Him...

Prayer always the first thing I want to do yet here the 1st time used. Something else I noticed is.. Warren is not here to answer back to defend him self. That right there we as believers in the lord Jesus Christ would care about. For me when done like this is nothing more than gossip. We do notice a word not used but once so far "prayer". For me its always the first.

So....who are you who knows you how long have you walked in what you preach.. then prayer for a very long time. <--this is what USE to be done thousands of years ago. Well they knew ANYONE could say "thus says the lord" "God told me about them/you" on and on. Now? Ask..how long have you prayed about this? What did your pastor say? Well we also need someone over us yes? Try asking without looking it up.. that so and so your talking about or Church or singer.. what GOOD do they do for Christ? Christ knows...

Most of the world are nonelects. So most of the pastors are nonelect hirelings. God's elects are not popular in the world. Also ostracized.

John 15:18-19
King James Version

18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Yea I think the whole world will later have laws, where you are jailed or killed if you are Christian.

Come out from among them and be ye separate, and touch not the unclean thing.

Since those who go off the rails generally refuse to repent, the only option for true and faithful believers is to separate themselves and meet with like-minded believers in homes or any other suitable setting.

The important thing is to base all doctrine and practice strictly on the Bible, and preach the true and full Gospel of Christ -- which is also the Gospel of the Kingdom. Christ will indeed establish His visiblr eternal Kingdom on earth at the right time. In the meantime, the Kingdom of God is within you (as Christ said).

Kissing the pope is submission to papal authority.

It could be simply a greeting. I would notot do such a thing but ......................

Prayer, of course. That's a given.

But silence is what's gotten us to this point. It's our duty and responsibility to call out those who claim to be Christians who have strayed from the path. Maybe it's not my place to rebuke Rick Warren but I'm surprised someone closer to him hasn't said anything to him. If they did he clearly didn't listen.

"I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching."-2 Timothy 1-2

There was an incident between Paul and Peter in Antioch in which Paul confronted Peter. The account of this incident is recorded in Galatians 2:11-14:

"But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. For before certain men came from James, he was eating with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party. And the rest of the Jews acted hypocritically along with him, so that even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy. But when I saw that their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, 'If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews?' "

When Paul recounted this event to the Galatians was he gossiping or teaching them?

Even if it is just a greeting it's not proper:

"Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works."-2 John 9-11

According to God's word, not my word, greeting a person who teaches false doctrine, and doesn't repent, is the same as taking part right along with them!

I'll start with a song by Lauren Daigle, "You Say." A megahit by anyone's standard. I happen to really like this song; however, does it promote the gospel of Christ? The song doesn't really say anything false but what it doesn't say is remarkable:


She believes, well and good; we should believe. But nowhere do her lyrics say anything about believing in Him! Jesus told us what to believe in John 8:24:

"Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."

This song has just enough truth to "pass" but not enough to really help anyone looking for truth. This is typical of all the popular ccm hits.

In 2012, the David Crowder Band released "Give Us Rest," a concepts album based on the Catholic church's Mass for the Dead. In this video clip, Crowder (Mr. "Red Letters") explains the album. Notice his references to "the church" and "all the way back to the beginning of the church." Is he equating the beginning of the "church" with the Catholic church? It sure sounds like it to me.


Since this time, Crowder has appeared at numerous conferences with other people who enthusiastically embrace the Catholic church. Rather than taking part with them, shouldn't he be calling them out? Remember 2 John 11: ". . .for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works."

Matt Maher is a ccm artist who is a practicing Catholic. I'm not that familiar with him but apparently he's quite popular.

Then there's Jesus Culture. This band was formed by Bethel Church in Redding, California, led by Bill Johnson. Johnson is a memeber of the New Apostolic Reformation which is associated with Rodney Howard-Brown (the Holy Ghost bartender), the Toronto Blessing, the Lakeland Revival and the Kansas City Prophets. Bethel is known for it's "manifestions" of the Holy Spirit in the form of a glory cloud in the sanctuary; gold dust falling from the ceiling or magically appearing on people's hands; and feathers falling from the ceiling (this is apparently a reference to God having "eagle's wings"). This is the church and the theology that produced Jesus Culture. Bethel Music is Bethel Church's record lablel and is responsible for some of the most popular ccm.

I could go on and on but there's not enough hours in the day.

For the last hundred years or so, the church has been one step behind the world. As the world declines, so does the church. Where the world was yesterday is where the church is today.

Those of us who speak up will be labeled old fashioned or legalists.

awesomely said. though there are many things we can notice in the world at many times and and this can be good too. all of these things should be applied to ourselves also (not just to others).

things like this bring to mind the verse, "the way is narrow and few.. "

there are those not really walking in The Way at all in Christianity (or the Christian title) , and then there are those that are somewhat and if in power or famous or writing songs they are walking however much they are or not, i don't know. then there are the more serious followers and even more serious then them, and so on..

the Bible (spirit) tells us, "come out from among them and be ye separate". there is is so much actually to come out from, and over time we learn and discover and realize all these different things to leave behind though in the beginning we can realize these things also.

i think this is what this subject/thread speaks to -- that is to say that it is speaking of a way all true-r followers of the Nar - row - ing Way will need to come out of/ discover about/ see on the road to Christ (at the beginning, middle, and/or ending of the narrowing, narrowing Way of Christ).