What is the strong delusion of 2 Thessalonian 2:11,12s 2

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Sakla

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Can anyone speculate what the delusion that God sends and the lie that is believed is, quoted in this verse: "and for this cause, God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie...that they all might be damned who believed not the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness."
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

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It also teaches those who believe lies are those who have chosen evil over good.

These will be deluded into believing lies. I believe from what I experience around me that they also hae a tendency to love lies.

If any reading love goodness of God, , you have nothng wo worry about for the lies and those who believe them will be obvious. God bless all who choose good.
\, if you have already chosen evil it is too late.
 
S

Sakla

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JaumeJ said:
It also teaches those who believe lies are those who have chosen evil over good.

These will be deluded into believing lies. I believe from what I experience around me that they also hae a tendency to love lies.

If any reading love goodness of God, , you have nothng wo worry about for the lies and those who believe them will be obvious. God bless all who choose good.
\, if you have already chosen evil it is too late.
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Yes I agree, however I am asking specifically "WHAT" you think the delusion is? This includes even people who are believers, because Jesus said that "Many who say unto me Lord, Lord...he shall say depart from me, ye who work iniquity. Many are called, but few chosen. So what do you think the delusion is? Not why.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

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When a person is under the influence of a spirit of delusion from God, there is no manner of resisting it.

It is self-explanatory in the text. l This delusion will cause them to believe lies.......
 
R

Runningman

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Sakla said:
Can anyone speculate what the delusion that God sends and the lie that is believed is, quoted in this verse: "and for this cause, God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie...that they all might be damned who believed not the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness."
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The delusion is not believing the truth (the gospel of Christ) because they have pleasure in unrighteousness. In a sense they are blinded.

2 Thessalonians 2:9-10
9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

1 Corinthians 1:18
18For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
 
S

Sakla

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JaumeJ said:
When a person is under the influence of a spirit of delusion from God, there is no manner of resisting it.

It is self-explanatory in the text. l This delusion will cause them to believe lies.......
Click to expand...
The scripture doesn't say "lies", like in general, which is already happening. It says " A Lie". I think God is meaning something more specific, like one particular thing. People have believed lies and rejected him and his word since the beginning. Whatever this is, it is something New, and God says he is sending this "Strong Delusion" himself.
 
S

Sakla

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Sakla said:
The scripture doesn't say "lies", like in general, which is already happening. It says " A Lie". I think God is meaning something more specific, like one particular thing. People have believed lies and rejected him and his word since the beginning. Whatever this is, it is something New, and God says he is sending this "Strong Delusion" himself.
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I mean what is the lie that they will believe. Saying, "they will believe lies" IS NOT answering the question.
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

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It might be a belief that the the "man of lawlessness" is God. v. 4 says: ". . .who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God." Those who suffer the strong delusion will actually think he's God and take his mark.
 
Yahshua

Yahshua

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Sakla said:
Can anyone speculate what the delusion that God sends and the lie that is believed is, quoted in this verse: "and for this cause, God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie...that they all might be damned who believed not the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness."
Click to expand...
The clue is the word I bolded and made red.

"un-right-ness" = wrong-ness; lawlessness; sin.

The person this passage is connected to is the man of "law-less-ness" AND connected to believers falling away from the original faith...because they take pleasure in sin.

The Greek word used is "Adikia" meaning (properly) "the opposite of justice" and is used to mean "evil-doers" and "wickedness". When we talk about righteousness, lawlessness, evil, etc., we're referring to God's law.

-----

The strong delusion is that God's Law is done away; that a believer in Messiah doesn't need to try to obey God's Commandments because the believer can't possibly do so (even though they've been saved from bondage to sin by Messiah's blood and received Messiah's gifts of Grace and Holy Spirit and faith as well as access to the throne for forgiveness) and because Messiah has been obedient for us.

If one challenges the idea that the law is done away you'll be met with anger and venom from brothers and sisters.

-----

I'm not making this yet another law debate, just answering your OP question and then will back off. Remember, Paul said the mystery of law-less-ness (i.e. secret/covert lawlessness) was ALREADY at work spreading in his day. To confirm this, just recall the multitude of people who would accuse Paul of preaching against the law, while he would constantly argue or comment that he wasn't.

Fast-forward to today...compare our society from before the 10 commandments were publically removed to now after they've been removed. We don't even have genders anymore. The church has become an entertainment show. No one wants anyone to judge anything as "wrong" for fear of being accused of hate speech or intolerance. There are no more moral rules; no sense of right and wrong. Everything is fluid; chaos; based on how a person feels. Literal societal lawlessness abounds (which we frown upon) and yet the blueprint of our moral laws that governed that society (the commandments) is done away??

This belief was started in Paul's day by wolves in sheep's clothing but was made an official doctrine by the Papacy and the Catholic church and has spread through Protestant Christianity ever since like cancer.
 
S

Sakla

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ResidentAlien said:
It might be a belief that the the "man of lawlessness" is God. v. 4 says: ". . .who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God." Those who suffer the strong delusion will actually think he's God and take his mark.
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Thank you for at least giving me an idea. That indeed could be true. However, the idea of this is something that even atheist have a general idea of, like conspiracy theorists. It states in 2 Peter that Jesus comes like a thief in the night and all the elements melt with a fervent heat. Somehow I think that the delusion has something to do with the end of all things and what people believe on what events transpire until this happens. Somehow, I think the delusion is believing there will be a tribulation and antichrist is the delusion. Even the secular world believes in big brother and conspiracy theories. They are waiting for what Christians have taught about the tribulation and antichrist...this won't be a surprise IF it did occur. Whatever the delusion is that God sends, is something non if us are expecting. Like Jesus suddenly coming and destroying all creation and all it's inhabitants, but rescuing "as if by fire" as is written in scripture.
 
S

Sakla

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Sakla said:
Thank you for at least giving me an idea. That indeed could be true. However, the idea of this is something that even atheist have a general idea of, like conspiracy theorists. It states in 2 Peter that Jesus comes like a thief in the night and all the elements melt with a fervent heat. Somehow I think that the delusion has something to do with the end of all things and what people believe on what events transpire until this happens. Somehow, I think the delusion is believing there will be a tribulation and antichrist is the delusion. Even the secular world believes in big brother and conspiracy theories. They are waiting for what Christians have taught about the tribulation and antichrist...this won't be a surprise IF it did occur. Whatever the delusion is that God sends, is something non if us are expecting. Like Jesus suddenly coming and destroying all creation and all it's inhabitants, but rescuing "as if by fire" as is written in scripture.
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Those who are his
 
AandW

AandW

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A Delusion of the Last 200 years could be equal to Last Days...

Pre-Trib Rapture is the last act, that has deeply changed teaching going back to Christ until around 200 years ago, when a Man was kicked out of his own natural born country of Ireland and ended up in Canada contemplating a new idealism [never taught] by Christ, the Apostles, the Church Fathers. Just a couple suckers from Canada and the USA. People really believe they will escape what is coming.

It's kind of a larger scale Purgatory idealism!
 
S

Sakla

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It says Jesus comes like a thief in the night and all the elements, which is creation melt with fervent heat... scientists call this and not knowing this...the Rip theory. I believe that is what is about to happen and the tribulation is not going to happen because it already has been and the antichrist is us worshipping ourselves as God, like celebrities for instance.
 
S

Sakla

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I know what it says in scripture, interesting about the mark of the beast, that the word for mark has something to mean about "engraving", like writing and that Jesus warned that nothing should be added to the words of the prophecy in Revelation. Maybe the tribulation and antichrist were what was added, which is the delusion and God is destroying everything much faster, like a thief in the night Jesus comes, and everything is destroyed with the brightness of his coming, except those who are his.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

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Sakla said:
The scripture doesn't say "lies", like in general, which is already happening. It says " A Lie". I think God is meaning something more specific, like one particular thing. People have believed lies and rejected him and his word since the beginning. Whatever this is, it is something New, and God says he is sending this "Strong Delusion" himself.
Click to expand...
It does not need to be plural or singular. It may also be to believe a lie as lies in general. Remember this is not modern English it is from the time of King Henry..VIII
 
R

Runningman

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Sakla said:
Thank you for at least giving me an idea. That indeed could be true. However, the idea of this is something that even atheist have a general idea of, like conspiracy theorists. It states in 2 Peter that Jesus comes like a thief in the night and all the elements melt with a fervent heat. Somehow I think that the delusion has something to do with the end of all things and what people believe on what events transpire until this happens. Somehow, I think the delusion is believing there will be a tribulation and antichrist is the delusion. Even the secular world believes in big brother and conspiracy theories. They are waiting for what Christians have taught about the tribulation and antichrist...this won't be a surprise IF it did occur. Whatever the delusion is that God sends, is something non if us are expecting. Like Jesus suddenly coming and destroying all creation and all it's inhabitants, but rescuing "as if by fire" as is written in scripture.
Click to expand...
Interesting point. Delusion cannot recognize itself because it does not know. The only way to undelude someone is to give them the truth, but delusion can prevent receiving the truth. It is blindness. It seems to be strongly connected to what one loves. If one loves unrighteousness they cannot part with it easily. If one loves God they will seek God. The Bible says if we seek God He will open our eyes to find Him.
 
AandW

AandW

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Sakla said:
It says Jesus comes like a thief in the night and all the elements, which is creation melt with fervent heat... scientists call this and not knowing this...the Rip theory. I believe that is what is about to happen and the tribulation is not going to happen because it already has been and the antichrist is us worshipping ourselves as God, like celebrities for instance.
Click to expand...
Well read Revelation 16:1-14.
Those Verses are from beginning to end the Order of God's Wrath to come.
Verse 15 is the Second Coming [after] God's wrath is fulfilled.
Verse 16 takes us immediately to Armageddon.

How long do you see this could take if it were days, weeks all in a row?
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

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Jul 2, 2011
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Anyone who is awarre of world events, even to a small degree, iw familiar with many lies being believed to the point o the killing of millions based upon them
People are oppressed and even dispossessed on ideas based on untruths.

If I understand a person will believe a lie, I cannot limit that to one lie.

Come the Beast those who follow him will be believing a lot of lies. I believe the delusion has already begun, however I will not say I know it is.. too many are all to prepared to argue any points made here to the brink of the abyss........let us avoid this practice.
 
S

Sakla

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#19
Yahshua said:
The clue is the word I bolded and made red.

"un-right-ness" = wrong-ness; lawlessness; sin.

The person this passage is connected to is the man of "law-less-ness" AND connected to believers falling away from the original faith...because they take pleasure in sin.

The Greek word used is "Adikia" meaning (properly) "the opposite of justice" and is used to mean "evil-doers" and "wickedness". When we talk about righteousness, lawlessness, evil, etc., we're referring to God's law.

-----

The strong delusion is that God's Law is done away; that a believer in Messiah doesn't need to try to obey God's Commandments because the believer can't possibly do so (even though they've been saved from bondage to sin by Messiah's blood and received Messiah's gifts of Grace and Holy Spirit and faith as well as access to the throne for forgiveness) and because Messiah has been obedient for us.

If one challenges the idea that the law is done away you'll be met with anger and venom from brothers and sisters.

-----

I'm not making this yet another law debate, just answering your OP question and then will back off. Remember, Paul said the mystery of law-less-ness (i.e. secret/covert lawlessness) was ALREADY at work spreading in his day. To confirm this, just recall the multitude of people who would accuse Paul of preaching against the law, while he would constantly argue or comment that he wasn't.

Fast-forward to today...compare our society from before the 10 commandments were publically removed to now after they've been removed. We don't even have genders anymore. The church has become an entertainment show. No one wants anyone to judge anything as "wrong" for fear of being accused of hate speech or intolerance. There are no more moral rules; no sense of right and wrong. Everything is fluid; chaos; based on how a person feels. Literal societal lawlessness abounds (which we frown upon) and yet the blueprint of our moral laws that governed that society (the commandments) is done away??

This belief was started in Paul's day by wolves in sheep's clothing but was made an official doctrine by the Papacy and the Catholic church and has spread through Protestant Christianity ever since like cancer.
Click to expand...
One of the most disturbing things I noticed and at 43 years old, I didn't know that song from the 1980'..."I need a Hero." was a song about a women wanting a one night stand. What is wrong with me, that I didn't see this?
AandW said:
Well read Revelation 16:1-14.
Those Verses are from beginning to end the Order of God's Wrath to come.
Verse 15 is the Second Coming [after] God's wrath is fulfilled.
Verse 16 takes us immediately to Armageddon.

How long do you see this could take if it were days, weeks all in a row?
Click to expand...
I don't care what it says, I believe that is the delusion, and what was added that Jesus warned about. I think it is over and the creation is going to melt with fervent heat at the brightness of Jesus coming and only those who are his will be in the new heaven and new earth. I think it is the END, end.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

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#20
Sakla said:
It says Jesus comes like a thief in the night and all the elements, which is creation melt with fervent heat... scientists call this and not knowing this...the Rip theory. I believe that is what is about to happen and the tribulation is not going to happen because it already has been and the antichrist is us worshipping ourselves as God, like celebrities for instance.
Click to expand...
This would easily be taken by geologists to describe the end of the big boom with its sudden implosion.

Also, if understood so, there are references to the continental drift theory, and to the earth being a globe and not flaat.

The above may be understood as scientific, however I believe our Father did everything just as He has shared with all in His word. Faith makes this farmore believeable than any scientific theories. Praise God, amen.
 
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