Hello brothers and sisters in the Lord

Hello to my fellow brothers and sisters in the Lord Jesus. I'm Matt, a 36 year old living in the Los Angeles area. I was raised in a Christian home but never had a committed relationship with the Lord until about 2017. It was about that time I became born again after being a largely lukewarm and disobedient child. Praise the Lord those days are far gone.

I have enjoyed the study of eschatology in the past 5 years or so and also listen to scriptures through Bible Gateway. I have enjoyed the following topics of study: When does the Day of the Lord Begin? When does the harpazo or rapture of the church occur? I also have liked listening to the different arguments scholars make regarding the timing of Daniel's 70th week. Most scholars believe we have not entered into this approximate 7 year "tribulation period" while others disagree.

I am of the view that we are already in the 70th week of Daniel and the the Revelation 12 sign was a critical sign signaling the approximate beginning of Daniel's 70th week which occurred on Sept. 23, 2017. I am not of the view that the confirmation of "covenant with many" by the antichrist begins the "tribulation period." Instead, it is my view that this confirmation of a 7 year treaty between Israel and many nations will occur closer to the midpoint of the "tribulation period." The Abraham Accords Declaration seems to be an important step in this process of a "covenant with many" that the antichrist will soon confirm.

I have loved listening to visions, dreams, and prophetic words that the Lord has shared with His servants over the years. I have found the vision of great tribulation given to Ken Peters and the vision given to Dumitru Dudman of America's coming judgements to be the most powerful.

Well, perhaps a bit much here for an introduction but I tend to go on a bit sometimes. I am quite excited to live in this time period and I know what a privilege and blessing it is to be created by the Lord to live at the end of the age. Praise the Lord Jesus Christ, for I truly am nothing without Him.

Hello TLIMR, welcome to Christian Chat.

I hope you'll enjoy your stay here. A bit much?
You are right, your poll should be elsewhere.

Welcome

Greetings and Welcome!

The Day of the Lord (wrath of God), takes place after the gathering of the church and is initiated by the Lamb's opening of the first seal rider on the white horse which is representing the emergence of the antichrist.

Revelation 12 where Satan and his angels are cast out of heaven, is the result of the 7th trumpet and which takes place in the middle of the seven years. This is evident because when Satan has been cast to the earth he goes after the woman/Israel where she flees out into the wilderness and is cared for by God for 1260 days which is the last 3 1/2 years of Daniel's seven year period.

Thanks Deade for welcoming me. I was more referring that my discussion of the end times could be viewed as being "a bit much" in an intro than the poll specifically. I'll leave the poll there because it is relevant to what I was speaking about.

Welcome!

Hello Ahwatukee,
Yes, I generally agree with your placement of the Day of the Lord. Some place the start of the Day of the Lord after the great tribulation has occurred. Some also say that the Day of the Lord begins all the way at the opening of the 6th seal in approximately the final 2 years of "the tribulation." That is an interesting point about the 7th trumpet. I am honestly not sure about what view is correct in regards to the timing of that trumpet. The more I study eschatology the more I realize how complex it can be.

There is the view that the 7 bowl judgements called forth by the 7th trumpet happen at the opening of the 7th seal, closer to the end of Daniel's 70th week rather than the middle.

Revelation 8:1-6

1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

The timing of the opening of the 6th seal is another interesting question to ponder. Some scholars I have read such as Brenda Weltner say that the reign of the beast (antichrist) does not qualify for the wrath of God. It seems to me that it could because the Lord is using Satan as a tool to search the hearts and reigns of mankind even though the wrath of Satan is on display. It makes sense to me that Revelation 12:5-9 will take place close to the midpoint as well.

There is also a view I came across that there will be two Day of the Lord periods in Daniel's 70th week. In this theory, a general Day of The Lord such as described in the OT will precede the midpoint and will foreshadow the specific Day Of The Lord prophesied by Joel, Amos, and found in Acts 2:20. These scholars say it will occur after great tribulation at the approximate opening of the 6th seal.

That was quite an introduction that you wrote Matt. I believe that these are the end times but have not reached the 70th week of Daniel. I'm sure that your OP will get a few replies. Glad to have you onboard with us. Welcome to CC.

Good day, TLIMR,

Just curious, since the 7th trumpet takes place in the middle of the seven years, which is identified by Israel being cared for out in the wilderness for 1260 days and which is representing the last 3 1/2 years of that seven period in 30 day month increments, then how can the 6th Seal possibly be the final 2 years of the tribulation period?

The seven years described in Daniel 9:27, is divided up into two 3 1/2 year periods, with the setting up of the abomination marking the middle of the seven. This seven year period is represented in Revelation as 1260 days, 42 months and a time, times and half a time, all equaling 3 1/2 years.

All that said, I have the 6th seal as taking place in the early part of the first 3 1/2 year period and not the final 2 years.

As one who is studying end-time events, I'm sure that you noticed that after the breaking of each seal or sounding of each trumpet there is a resulting plague of wrath such as: 2nd Seal = Peace taken from the earth so that men kill each other, 3rd Seal = World-wide famine, 4th Seal = a fourth of the earth earth's population killed, 1st Trumpet = a third of the earth and trees burned up, 5th Trumpet = demonic beings released from the Abyss to torment for five months, just to name a few. The 7th Trumpet starts off with a pre-celebration in heaven, a description of the woman and the dragon and then the resulting plague of wrath from the 7th trumpet which is Satan and his angels being cast to the earth: (Rejoice you heavens and you who dwell in them. But Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea. For the Devil has come down to you.) That "Woe" is the 3rd woe

That would be too confusing to start interpreting the seals, trumpets and bowls in that manner. They are listed 1 thru 7 for a reason, as they will take place in the chronological order in which they appear in Revelation. Once the 7th seal has been opened, it leads into the trumpet judgments, which then lead into the bowl judgments, in that order. Just fyi, the great earthquake that takes place at the opening of the 6th seal, is not the same earthquake which takes place at the pouring out of the 7th bowl judgment. Another example would be, the opening of the 6th seal where the sun is darkened like sackcloth and the moon is turned blood red, is not the same event of Matt.24:29. They are similar in description, but cannot be the same event. Reason being is that, Matt.24:29 is directly linked with the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, which would leave no room for neither the 7th seal, seven trumpets, nor the seven bowl judgments. And all of God's wrath must be completed before the Lord returns to end the age.

Revelation 8:1-6

This is a just another false teaching by Weltner and others that has crept into the church. It is the teaching of men, so that they can find ways of putting the church on the earth during the seals. All they do is change the timing of God's wrath, as well as other things.

There is no "Satan's wrath!" Expositors created this from when Satan is cast out of heaven where it states that he is filled with great fury/wrath. And so they call it "Satan's wrath." However, it is the Lamb/Jesus who is opening the seals, which leads into the trumpets and bowls, therefore, He is responsible for the resulting fatalities and destruction of all of those plagues. The entire period, including the events of the beast and the false prophet, all fall under God's wrath. The book of Revelation is a detailed account of The Day of the Lord, the time of God's wrath. Since God is the One who is having Satan and his angels thrown out of heaven as the result of His 7th trumpet, then that would be God's wrath, not Satan's.

Forgive me, but I don't put too much stock in so-called scholars and Theologians. I have always studied God's word for my self and then look to see what others are saying. Consider the following:

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I will completely sweep away everything from the face of the earth,”

declares the LORD.

“I will sweep away man and beast;

I will sweep away the birds of the air,

and the fish of the sea,

and the idols with their wicked worshipers.

I will cut off mankind from the face of the earth,” (Zeph.1:2-3)


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The great Day of the LORD is near—

near and coming quickly.

Listen, the Day of the LORD!

Then the cry of the mighty will be bitter.

That day will be

a day of wrath,

a day of trouble and distress,

a day of destruction and desolation,

a day of darkness and gloom,

a day of clouds and blackness,

a day of horn blast and battle cry

against the fortified cities,

and against the high corner towers.

I will bring such distress on mankind

that they will walk like the blind,

because they have sinned against the LORD.

Their blood will be poured out like dust

and their flesh like dung.

Neither their silver nor their gold

will be able to deliver them

on the Day of the LORD’s wrath.

The whole earth will be consumed

by the fire of His jealousy.”

For indeed, He will make a sudden end

of all who dwell on the earth. (Zeph.1:14-18)

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The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments are all God's wrath, which is what the Day of the Lord is. Therefore that entire seven years is the time of God's wrath. This is also why the church cannot be on the earth during that time, because we are not appointed to suffer God's wrath. The Day of the Lord is also referred to as "The Hour of Trial," which is neither a day nor an hour in length, but represents that entire period of wrath.

Have a blessed day!

Nice to meet you and welcome to the fellowship here at CC If you're saying we are in the Trib, then we have seven yrs to go. Whenever it is, it's near and my motto is just to 'Be Ready'. That is such an interesting Poll that if you do decide to post it in the BDF, Bible Discussion Forum, you will get more opinions. God bless you and enjoy your time here!

Thank you, good to meet you as well. Yes, I definitely agree with that motto. I'm just watching the signs and walking with the Lord one day at a time. Yea, I was going to post the poll in another forum, I'll put it there as well.

You certainly are enthusiastic ... When I was newly saved I was sure Jesus would come in my lifetime, that excitement has gone but I love the Lord sweeter than I did back then.

Welcome to you welcome.