Biblical Eternal Security vs 'Calvinistic Eternal Security' -by Gregg Jackson

This shows that you don't understand what free will is. Free will is ONLY freedom of choice. One must have options (more than 1 choice) to have free will.

Free will has NO power at all. But it seems most Calvinists want to argue that way, in order to shoot it down.

Free will is free choice. It would be absurd to argue otherwise. It is clear from Genesis that Adam and the woman HAD the choice to either eat of the forbidden tree or not. They were commanded NOT to, but they had the freedom TO do so.

OK, God gives the options, but so what? They were given to Adam and the woman and they themselves made the choice.

It seems you are conflating the consequence with the choice. They are different. And consequence is what God chooses to do.

Does a dead man have free will to resurrect himself?

FreeGrace2 said:
I think you mistake "forbidding" with "preventing".

There must be clarity in what we say. Both the man's and the woman's ability to choose was clearly FREE. Not "hardly free".

The dire consequences have no bearing on making choices. People "burn themselves" all the time because of bad choices. They are still free to make those kind of choices.


So you don't believe that any born (not created) person has the ability to choose?? Where does the Bible teach that?

Rather, Paul taught that belief comes from the heart, not from God. Rom 10:9

Paul also taught that man has a conscience with which to know right from wrong. Romans 2:14,15.

And, Paul taugh that because God has revealed Himself and His divine power through creation, man has no excuse for not recognizing God as Creator and being thankful to Him. Romans 1:19-21

Man surely has a free will. That's the only way man can be accountable and have no excuse for his own choices.
How come you just skip over everything I pointed out and ask frivolous questions? Would you please at least address my points?

I suppose you have a point here, but I can't imagine what it may be. Could you clarify?

See? You treat free will as some kind of power, which is ridiculous. Please don't, because it isn't.

Free will is opportunity. Freedom to choose.

Well, you can twist what I pointed out from Paul and insert a totally irrelevant concept, I guess, to try to change the subject or create some smoke and mirrors.

Paul used the word "slaves" to illustrate that unsaved man is slave to sin. He has no opportunity for righteousness.

It is the saved man who has that opportunity.

Listen to Paul:

Rom 6-
11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires.
13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means!
16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?
17 But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance.
18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
19 I am using an example from everyday life because of your human limitations. Just as you used to offer yourselves as slaves to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer yourselves as slaves to righteousness leading to holiness.
20 When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness.

All these verses deal with choice; what we as believers are to obey.

I don't follow your line of thinking here. Of course God is omniscient and KNOWS everyone in humanity and how they will choose.

And that's why He chose him. I think John 6:70,71 is quite clear on that.

#743

Such contradictions.

Why are preachers called by God to preach??
Why is the Cross given, that is preached by men, and women, for 2000 yrs?

This is why...>"it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe""""


Notice......."to save them that BELIEVE".............How? By preaching.

How does that happen?
A preacher preaches the Gospel.........and a person who is not saved, hears it. The Holy Spirit works in this situation to open their understanding.....and THAT is the "Drawing".

if he had freewill he would. If mankind had freewill there would have been no need for the cross, Jesus could come and teach us and we could simply choose to follow Him.

No apostle says thanks be to God whom we have chosen of our own freewill

Well, since he doesn't have that option, no he doesn't. And you didn't to a think to dismiss free will.

How about a spiritually dead person hearing and living? Is that possible?

Of course it is because Jesus said so in PLAIN WORDS.

John 5:25 - Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.

Red words show that Jesus wasn't talking about the resurrrection.

Green words refer to unsaved spiritually dead people

Blue words describe what these unsaved spiritually dead people CAN do RIGHT NOW.

and the person who is unsaved who hears but does not believe?

When will you start?
You teach that people are saved before they Believe.
That's not just theological error, thats illogical.

Listen..

SIN has to be dealt with before a person can be born again.
Your teaching is that while people are sinners, and before they have believed in Jesus, they are already born again.

So, whatever you are, regarding a denomination, is not related to any mainline Christian Denomiantion.

I know you wont tell us if you are Mormon or a JW, but, your theology is so strange to the ears of any Mainline Protestant Denomination hearer, that its just sound queer and kinda crazy.
Do you even realize this?
Believe it.

and if God closes their eyes that they see not and stops up their ears that they hear not?

Maybe it's just your confusion about all of this. You have been treating free will as having some kind of power, which is ridiculous.

Or, could you actually point out them and show how there are contradictions?

Trying to impugn me with nonsense, is not going to erase what you did. Evmur.
First you accused God of creating evil, then you denied that you said this.
So, i quote your post.
Now all you can is try to deflect your dishonesy.
Good luck with that, as liars always try this game, and its a fail every time.

Now, you can hit that "report button" to try to get a mod to save you, but, once you hit it, and they contact me, i'll show them your lie and then you'll have to deal with that also.

Think on all that.

it's orthodox doctrine.

Ephesians 2
And you He made alive when you were dead through trespasses and sin

aw give over

You are lying.

if there were such a thing as freewill it would have power.

What is it precisely that Jesus said causes the spiritually dead to come alive?

Is this....

John 3:36.

""""Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son (does not believe) will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them."""""

and again.

""""""He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.""""""


See that?
This is DAMNATION.......This is a person going to HELL and has not died yet

All unbelievers are currently DAMNED, until the day they BELIEVE IN JESUS, and are born again.

Those who do not remain a Christ Rejector, and if you die one, you will be JUDGED for Christ Rejection, and you will hit the Great White Throne, Revelation 20:11, after you have been in hell waiting for that day.

JerryInBoston said:
Does a dead man have free will to resurrect himself?
Nope. Man HAS free will. But man has NO choice about resurrecting himself.

See? You continue to set up a straw man argument; that free will is a power. Please stop it.

Of course there is the need for the cross. Adam and the woman HAD freedom to choose and they chose to eat of the forbidden tree. And the consequences meant Jesus had to go to the cross.

There is no need for any apostle to mention free will. Why? Because it is so OBVIOUS. Read Romans 6 and how many options Paul gave the believers.

The faith to believe is a gift