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This is math, 490 times if my math is good. Bit much for me. Seems to me, either it means there is no definitive answer, different for different folks. Or infinite forgiveness. And the last one I do not believe is healthy, kind of like being a doormat for others. I do not think we are supposed to let people step on us forever. It conflict with telling the truth, and speaking up for what is right.
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Jesus was teaching us to forgive others if we want to be forgiven by our heavenly Father...
Matthew 6: 14-15
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. ~KJV
And we need a lot of forgiveness
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You are supposed to stop sinning after praying for forgiveness. So, as I see it, no trespassing ever again. And narrow the path to accomplish this. Then you do not have to forgive people who do you wrong. If you keep those kind of toxic relations in your earthly life. Not easy, but if it was easy, it would not be much of a test.
That may be true in your religion, but in the bible only God is good, so I still need God's forgiveness and a Savior named Christ Jesus.
I need to forgive others as my heavenly Father forgives me.
Until tomorrow
Luke 18:19
19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. ~KJV
I like and agree with your versequote. I do not know about the needthing. It is not about that for me. I drop anger/hate as feelings, that means dispassionate. No need for forgiving then. Because I do not feel wronged then. If people are cut out, they cannot betray, steal from you, or lie to you, or anything. So nothing to forgive. If I were to keep toxic relations from the secular world, then I could never ever pray forgiveness, because those feelings would reoccure regulary. So, it would mean I lie to God, if I keep getting angry on those who steal, lie, etc from/to me, before forgiving. Because I think I can only repent one time.
it’s a repetitive doctrine meaning forgive everyone who sins against you hold nothing against anyone else
“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
Matthew 6:14-15 KJV
Peter was asking because the law didn’t teach that and so he was amazed saying lord how many times should o forgive someone that wrongs me 7 times a day is that enough ? Jesus then replied with a number that seems impossible for another to sin that much against us an unreachable goal
because the truth is if we forgive sin , we are going to receive forgiveness and be judged by whatever measure of mercy we offer to mothers having known the mercy of Christ first that forgave all of our sins by his own choice. Forgave the sins of all the world for all
Time and gave us the truth of his judgement
“And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.”
Mark 11:25-26 KJV
people get confused because they know “
Jesus forgave my sins in his death “ but he also gave his judgement fornGids children who believe and that’s mercy for the merciful and judgement for the grudge bearers based on their own actions towards others how they treat sinners is it like Jesus did ? Or is it like sinners did ?
The parable that follows explains this but people sometimes can’t understand a parable after he answered Peter he explains what he meant in a parable
“Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. ( that’s what Jesus Dodd or all of us paid an unpayable debt )
(and this is what he said according to it to believers seeking the kingdom )
But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
(Jesus conclusion on what he told Peter)
So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.”
Matthew 18:23-35 KJV
it’s usually explained in the verses all around the single one parables are full of a message that is being conveyed through a spoken visual by Jesus so when we are seeking him in his word we’re going to find it
“Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. ( that’s what Jesus Dodd or all of us paid an unpayable debt )
(and this is what he said according to it to believers seeking the kingdom )
But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
(Jesus conclusion on what he told Peter)
So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.”
Matthew 18:23-35 KJV
it’s usually explained in the verses all around the single one parables are full of a message that is being conveyed through a spoken visual by Jesus so when we are seeking him in his word we’re going to find it
everything spoken to Israel first , was sent to anyone who will believe because so many of them rejected it the argument people make about something’s in the gospel being only for jew is erroneous the same kingdom they rejected but a few accepted was sent to everyone else
here’s another very relevant parable helping to understand this like an invite israel was offered the gospel
“And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God.
Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many: And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready.
And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused. And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused. And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.
So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind. And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room.
And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled. For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.”
Luke 14:15-24 KJV
Christ had promised to come to Israel but they didn’t want what he was offering they wanted what they thought was coming a violent overthrow of Rome and an earthly restoration of Israel immediately upon his coming but that wasn’t what he came for and they didn’t find its value so the rejected his offer of salvstion into the eternal things
when they did that he sent the gospel to all the lame and poor of Israel calling them rather than the priests and elders who were rejecting him . After this , he sent the gospel the same exact gospel out into all nations of the world beginning at Jerusalem the thing that left them desolate was rejecting Christ when he came and as was foretold God chose to create a new people from all nations to replace them and envoke jealousy as they had done Choosing other gods and inviting his wrath. When he finally came it made them desolate and soon after Jerusalem was laid low and the temple left destroyed
but the kingdom was sent to the world
Who will believe
here’s another very relevant parable helping to understand this like an invite israel was offered the gospel
“And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God.
Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many: And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready.
And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused. And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused. And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.
So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind. And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room.
And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled. For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.”
Luke 14:15-24 KJV
Christ had promised to come to Israel but they didn’t want what he was offering they wanted what they thought was coming a violent overthrow of Rome and an earthly restoration of Israel immediately upon his coming but that wasn’t what he came for and they didn’t find its value so the rejected his offer of salvstion into the eternal things
when they did that he sent the gospel to all the lame and poor of Israel calling them rather than the priests and elders who were rejecting him . After this , he sent the gospel the same exact gospel out into all nations of the world beginning at Jerusalem the thing that left them desolate was rejecting Christ when he came and as was foretold God chose to create a new people from all nations to replace them and envoke jealousy as they had done Choosing other gods and inviting his wrath. When he finally came it made them desolate and soon after Jerusalem was laid low and the temple left destroyed
but the kingdom was sent to the world
Who will believe
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If it does, then tell me how anybody can get to heaven at all? It would mean that the meek could not get to heaven. It would mean that traumatized rapevictims could never get to heaven. It would mean that people bullied, and getting severly beaten by a gang of evil people, over and over again, could never get to heaven. And a lot of other good people, who are victims. I do not believe the God would give them such a test to fail, and go to hell. Forgiving is next to impossible for traumatized people who live with the trauma the rest of the life. I do not believe those at concentrationcamps was required to forgive their tormentors and Hitler. And in practice, they would not be afforded the time to do it either. If you have gotten the news about missionaries in afghanistan being arrested and will most likely be killed soon, over 200 people. I do not believe any of them fail God if they fail to forgive in their possible last days. Does not make sense after devoting their lives to God, and doing Gods work. It must mean something else. It would also mean that I would go to hell, so kind of a bummer buddy.
“Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.”
Matthew 5:7 KJV
“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:”
Luke 6:36-37
What if God was trying to teach you that principle ? If you believed him you can know your going to not be condemned come the day you have to do this
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
2 Corinthians 5:10 KJV
you want to go there with his word telling you your not going to be judged and condemned
And the way to secure that is to believe him and have faith that he is the one Gid sent to save us
Matthew 5:7 KJV
“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:”
Luke 6:36-37
What if God was trying to teach you that principle ? If you believed him you can know your going to not be condemned come the day you have to do this
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
2 Corinthians 5:10 KJV
you want to go there with his word telling you your not going to be judged and condemned
And the way to secure that is to believe him and have faith that he is the one Gid sent to save us
Matthew 18:21-22
The Parable of the Unforgiving Servant
21 Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”
22 Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.
The Bible has plenty to say about forgiveness. Where the Old Testament focuses mainly on God's forgiveness of individuals or groups, the teachings of Jesus in the Gospels also address how human beings can and should forgive each other.
The word forgive in the bible can be translated as follows.
To send away to send forth, yield up, to expire, to let go, let alone, let be, to disregard, give up a debt, forgive, to remit to give up, keep no longer.
In certain contexts, forgiveness is a legal term for absolving or giving up all claims on account of debt, loan, obligation or other claims.
Psychologists generally define forgiveness as a conscious, deliberate decision to release feelings of resentment or vengeance toward a person or group who has harmed you, regardless of whether they actually deserve your forgiveness.
What is forgiveness?
It is a conscious choice that we make. Whether the person who hurt us apologises or not.
It is a shift in thinking towards someone who has hurt you.
It is letting go of the need for revenge and ill will.
It is choosing to remember no more what has been done to you.
It is acknowledging the pain and hurt you feel and walk in.
It is giving it up to God allowing him the right to take care of justice, his perfect justice.
What forgiveness is not.
It is not reconciliation.
It does not mean you have to restore a relationship.
It is not waiting for an apology before forgiving.
It is not always having to tell someone that we have forgiven them.
It is not just merely forgetting.
Is is not condoning or excusing what has been done.
It's not allowing the offence to recur again and again.
It does not replace justice. If an act against you is criminal you are free to instigate legal justice.
Consequences of unforgiveness.
Unforgiveness is a chain that will wrap itself around you. It will pull tighter and tighter. It will sap the very life out of you. It will make you miserable, angry, resentful. It will affect you health, cause anxiety, which leads to high blood pressure, release chemicals in your body that further increases anxiety, depression along with with physical symptoms of heart palpitations, breathing problems, tingling in your fingers and feet, not being able to sleep, not being able to function. These physical symptoms bring fear that further compound the physical and emotional symptoms.
MORE IMPORTANTLY IT AFFECTS YOUR RELATIONSHIPS, with other people that we have no need to forgive. We can withdraw or guard against friendships, be grumpy, irritable, mistrust and so on.
If it affects our relationships with other people you can guarantee it will affect our relationship with God.
The fact is, in the eyes of God unforgiveness is a sin. It can hinder our prayers, it will hinder our spiritual growth and it will hinder our witness.
Consequences of forgiveness.
First of all it helps with all the health issues mentioned above.
We see relationships with those around us in a different light.
We may see relationships restored.
The above are tangible benefits.
When we repent (make a conscious decision to forgive) of unforgiveness then we feel better about our relationship with God, we feel closer to God, we find it easier to come before him, speak to him, spend time him.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Forgiveness is a one time event (what I mean is that at some point you choose to give it up) yet dealing with the consequences can be a process.
When we acknowledge the hurt and pain and any other negative emotion, the act of merely forgiving does not necessarily heal the negative aspects that we suffer.
This is where we are to bring it before God and ask him to heal us. These chains God wants to break, to heal, restore to you an inner peace, replace anger with love
If we have allowed chains to wrap themselves around us they start to loosen when we allow God to work. When our chains are gone then we have FREEDOM.
This is the ultimate consequence and priceless benefit of forgiveness. Forgiveness is not just about better health and life satisfaction. It’s not just an aid for reducing stress and fighting depression. It is about becoming by grace what God is by nature: a person who loves, a person who forgives, a person who cares for the salvation of the entire world, one soul at a time.
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Theologian Lewis Smedes writes, "To forgive is to set a prisoner free and discover that the prisoner was you.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. (Martin Luther King, Jr)
Never forget the three powerful resources you always have available to you: love, prayer, and forgiveness. (H. Jackson Brown, Jr.)
When you forgive, you in no way change the past - but you sure do change the future. (Bernard Meltzer)
To err is human; to forgive, divine. (Alexander Pope)
Footnote:
Secular psychology in the 1980's started to incorporate the principle of forgiveness into counselling. Even in the secular world there is a realisation that forgiveness plays a major part in the lives of those they counsel. So a biblical principle is slowly working its way into the non religious world around us.
They do however focus on the aspect of letting go, it's health benefits and coping mechanisms for anger etc. There are even documented steps to forgiveness programs that they follow.
Where they stop though is the fact then we have a Father who wants to heal pain an hurt. Our Father does not want to give us coping mechanisms he wants to dig it right out of us and replace it pure unadulterated love.
When I have talked to non Christians who struggle with hurt and pain I talk about forgiveness in the secular sense but then say, "Why cope with it when God wants to heal it?
The majority accept the concept of forgiveness but not God healing it (that comes down to faith)
Nevertheless revealing the need to forgive in the first place is the right thing to do.
The Parable of the Unforgiving Servant
21 Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”
22 Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.
The Bible has plenty to say about forgiveness. Where the Old Testament focuses mainly on God's forgiveness of individuals or groups, the teachings of Jesus in the Gospels also address how human beings can and should forgive each other.
The word forgive in the bible can be translated as follows.
To send away to send forth, yield up, to expire, to let go, let alone, let be, to disregard, give up a debt, forgive, to remit to give up, keep no longer.
In certain contexts, forgiveness is a legal term for absolving or giving up all claims on account of debt, loan, obligation or other claims.
Psychologists generally define forgiveness as a conscious, deliberate decision to release feelings of resentment or vengeance toward a person or group who has harmed you, regardless of whether they actually deserve your forgiveness.
What is forgiveness?
It is a conscious choice that we make. Whether the person who hurt us apologises or not.
It is a shift in thinking towards someone who has hurt you.
It is letting go of the need for revenge and ill will.
It is choosing to remember no more what has been done to you.
It is acknowledging the pain and hurt you feel and walk in.
It is giving it up to God allowing him the right to take care of justice, his perfect justice.
What forgiveness is not.
It is not reconciliation.
It does not mean you have to restore a relationship.
It is not waiting for an apology before forgiving.
It is not always having to tell someone that we have forgiven them.
It is not just merely forgetting.
Is is not condoning or excusing what has been done.
It's not allowing the offence to recur again and again.
It does not replace justice. If an act against you is criminal you are free to instigate legal justice.
Consequences of unforgiveness.
Unforgiveness is a chain that will wrap itself around you. It will pull tighter and tighter. It will sap the very life out of you. It will make you miserable, angry, resentful. It will affect you health, cause anxiety, which leads to high blood pressure, release chemicals in your body that further increases anxiety, depression along with with physical symptoms of heart palpitations, breathing problems, tingling in your fingers and feet, not being able to sleep, not being able to function. These physical symptoms bring fear that further compound the physical and emotional symptoms.
MORE IMPORTANTLY IT AFFECTS YOUR RELATIONSHIPS, with other people that we have no need to forgive. We can withdraw or guard against friendships, be grumpy, irritable, mistrust and so on.
If it affects our relationships with other people you can guarantee it will affect our relationship with God.
The fact is, in the eyes of God unforgiveness is a sin. It can hinder our prayers, it will hinder our spiritual growth and it will hinder our witness.
Consequences of forgiveness.
First of all it helps with all the health issues mentioned above.
We see relationships with those around us in a different light.
We may see relationships restored.
The above are tangible benefits.
When we repent (make a conscious decision to forgive) of unforgiveness then we feel better about our relationship with God, we feel closer to God, we find it easier to come before him, speak to him, spend time him.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Forgiveness is a one time event (what I mean is that at some point you choose to give it up) yet dealing with the consequences can be a process.
When we acknowledge the hurt and pain and any other negative emotion, the act of merely forgiving does not necessarily heal the negative aspects that we suffer.
This is where we are to bring it before God and ask him to heal us. These chains God wants to break, to heal, restore to you an inner peace, replace anger with love
If we have allowed chains to wrap themselves around us they start to loosen when we allow God to work. When our chains are gone then we have FREEDOM.
This is the ultimate consequence and priceless benefit of forgiveness. Forgiveness is not just about better health and life satisfaction. It’s not just an aid for reducing stress and fighting depression. It is about becoming by grace what God is by nature: a person who loves, a person who forgives, a person who cares for the salvation of the entire world, one soul at a time.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Theologian Lewis Smedes writes, "To forgive is to set a prisoner free and discover that the prisoner was you.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. (Martin Luther King, Jr)
Never forget the three powerful resources you always have available to you: love, prayer, and forgiveness. (H. Jackson Brown, Jr.)
When you forgive, you in no way change the past - but you sure do change the future. (Bernard Meltzer)
To err is human; to forgive, divine. (Alexander Pope)
Footnote:
Secular psychology in the 1980's started to incorporate the principle of forgiveness into counselling. Even in the secular world there is a realisation that forgiveness plays a major part in the lives of those they counsel. So a biblical principle is slowly working its way into the non religious world around us.
They do however focus on the aspect of letting go, it's health benefits and coping mechanisms for anger etc. There are even documented steps to forgiveness programs that they follow.
Where they stop though is the fact then we have a Father who wants to heal pain an hurt. Our Father does not want to give us coping mechanisms he wants to dig it right out of us and replace it pure unadulterated love.
When I have talked to non Christians who struggle with hurt and pain I talk about forgiveness in the secular sense but then say, "Why cope with it when God wants to heal it?
The majority accept the concept of forgiveness but not God healing it (that comes down to faith)
Nevertheless revealing the need to forgive in the first place is the right thing to do.
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