Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

If a person was not saved to start with then they cannot be said to have strayed. They've just quit being pretenders.

of course I also believe he cannot lie and gave man freedom from the start

“Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.”
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭12:13-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men;

but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬


do you believe God causes a man to reject him so he can punish him though ? Or has he told us how to live and how to die which gives us a choice to turn from wickedness and be saved ?

“And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:46-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s always been our choice but we tend to want to be in the dark because it’s friendlier to the flesh

or on the other hand maybe false teachings led them astray from the truth of the gospel ?

“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

maybe those lies and fables have the same effect as the first false doctrine in Eden ?

or Maybe they kept rejecting the true warnings in scripture they were supposed to heed and be led to repentance ?

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

maybe they just refused to hear what God was saying because someone convinced them it doesn’t apply to them ?

maybe they just wanted something else rather than to hear the truth

“In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:7-10, 12-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Your giving me one verse in a passage about the end times

give me the whole passage my friend. You dont cherry pick verses.

Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:26


Abraham was declared to be righteous (justified) when he obeyed God, and offered his son Isaac on the altar.



Do you believe this to be true?



JLB

Which of your scriptures do you claim, “refutes” this truth?


Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21




JPT

Hi!
Agreed!
But to answer to the "works" part,
Abram was Justified and/ or declared Righteous way before God's work through him concerning his son, his only son, Isaac

Gen 15:6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
This was some 20+ years before Issac was born, Genesis 21

Have a blessed day!

abraham was declared righteous decades before his son was even concieved Do you believe this?

the thing about that is Abraham already obeyed from the start before he was declared righteous

“Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. So Abram departed, as the Lord had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭12:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s abrams foret encounter in scripture and it’s what is referenced as faith

“By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so Abraham was already a man of faith before he was ever declared righteous already he believed what God said and obeyed by faith his work then was to pack up and go where God told him later he received the promise of Isaac was declared right and later he fulfilled that by offering isaac when his faith was put to the test like faith always is

“Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing. If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1:3-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

actually if you look at it he did not obey

1. He did not go directly to the land. he went north first.
2. He was told to leave his family. instead he took his nephew, and paid for that later.

Deal with what you have....no choices with God's word...it mens what it says.

Why don't you just answer his question? Why respond with a question?

++++
can I ask do you believe mankind has no choice in whether they live forever or end up in the lake of fire ?

And this isn’t a parable that requires anything but belief

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬
++++

Then there would be not doubt about where you stand

Yeah it does

In in matt 24. It does not say what you think it says.

You pulled a verse out of context. And decided to use it to support your works based earn my own salvation by denying christ salvation

In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. That is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.

You need to remember that James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham was justified (accounted as righteous) by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness.

I agree.

And even before that…

Abraham was justified when he obeyed God to leave his home and go to the promised land; a picture of our salvation.


And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.
Galatians 3:8


Here is that scripture again, from the perspective of Hebrews…


By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going.
Hebrews 11:8


Again from Genesis. —



Now the LORD had said to Abram:
“Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.
I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth
So Abram departed as the LORD had spoken to him, and Lot went with him. And Abram was seventy-five years old when he departed from Haran.
Genesis 12:1-4



This is when Abraham was first justified. We see the common theme throughput all the scriptures that pertain to Abraham’s justification.


He obeyed the Lord; the obedience of faith.


This is how we are justified, by the obedience of faith.


But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26






JPT

God's covenant of law is obsolete. It was useless because no one can keep it. God's new covenant is of grace. Law requires that you do or don't do. Grace is God doing it all for us in Christ. The most diligent in keeping God's law were the Pharisees. Yet Lord Jesus said that our righteousness had to exceed theirs. How can that be possible? It's easy if righteousness is a gift.

Go ahead, try to keep the Law. Do your best and then boast before God how good you were. Many will say, "Lord Lord, didn't we cast out demons and prophesy in your name?" They boast of what they have done. Others will accepted while the former will be rejected. How come? Because they boast in what Christ has done, not what they have done.

I can assure you from God's word that your own righteousness is filthy rags to God. I won't describe just how disgusting God sees your righteousness. You might puke. Learn to walk in the Spirit. You will then fulfill all of God's righteous requirements. I'm not sure that I can quote the 10 commandments exactly any more. I don't need to. I have learned the difference between Law and grace and I know that God's righteous requirements are far higher than the Law demands. Only one person can attain to that height. It is Lord Jesus, not me. And He's done this for me because He knew that I could not then, I cannot now and I never will while I'm in this physical body.

Once the Law has done it's job, it is redundant. If you cannot work that out from God's word, you need to ditch your Bible and get a decent version. This is what mine has to say:

"Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it legitimately. We realize that law is not enacted for the righteous, but for the lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinful, for the unholy and profane, for killers of father or mother, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for homosexuals, for slave traders and liars and perjurers, and for anyone else who is averse to sound teaching that agrees with the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted." (1 Timothy 1:8-11)

If you are still trying to establish your own righteousness, then yes, you are under the Law. And you are not saved. I'm not saying that; God's word says that.

You need to know the truth of the two salvations. The initial experience is to be born again. This is instant, we have nothing to do except receive Christ. It costs nothing. The born again spirit is eternal. That means that it cannot die.

The second salvation is the soul. It helps to think of this as deliverance, as that is the primary meaning of "salvation". (Luke 4:18) There is a great deal involved in this, so I'll keep it to the bare bones. Fundamentally, God seeks the willing cooperation of man's will. The will is of the soul. It's not the spirit. When we come to Christ, we bring all the habits, memories and attitudes of our old way of life with us. Some of those things drop off immediately. Others take decades or longer to resolve. It depends on the priorities that God places on the problems that trouble us.

I knew a man who ate way too much. I asked the Lord about it as I was concerned for His health. The Lord told me that He would deal with the problem a the right time and there were other things that needed fixing first.

I had dinner with this man and his wife often. One evening, I sat down and noticed that he had a much smaller plate than usual. His wife loaded it up. He scored a line with his knife and told her to bin one half of the food. I was shocked. Then I remembered what God said about the food problem.

My friend's will was bound by the love of food. He was amazing in many other ways, but this one still controlled him. Until that evening. His soul experienced one more level of salvation. He passed away (74) a while later. He endured to the end.

I know other believers who would not permit God to deal with their problems. They are pretty much useless in God's service. They are too busy doing self will to do God's will. They will go to heaven, but they will not receive the kingdom rewards that those who allow God to change them will receive.

No, in fact, it was very useful. Paul said the Law was a tutor that leads us to Christ. iow, the Law proved that mankind needed a Savior.

Are there clear verses about these 2 salvations?

I don't concern myself with your judgement if where I stand.

When you don't comprehend the importance of the answer to, do you believe God is Sovereign, you know nothing about God.