Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

or on the other hand maybe false teachings led them astray from the truth of the gospel ?

“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

maybe those lies and fables have the same effect as the first false doctrine in Eden ?

or Maybe they kept rejecting the true warnings in scripture they were supposed to heed and be led to repentance ?

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

maybe they just refused to hear what God was saying because someone convinced them it doesn’t apply to them ?

maybe they just wanted something else rather than to hear the truth

“In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:7-10, 12-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And you know all about those books and even their price.

People save their money mostly. All they have to do is take the Gospel, argue contrary to what is written, insist it is true and those who don't see that are deluded. It works the same way for anyone on either side of the equation.

However, the telling portion as to whom is actually able to stand on the scriptures and be right in such cases where people are trying to discern which is which, is easy enough.

Jesus said, “Therefore by their fruits you will know them. Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in Heaven” (Matthew 7:20–21).

When readers encounter those who insist God's law, now for the New Covenant known as the Law of Christ (who was/is God), does not apply and was done away at the cross, that is not one of the redeemed in Christ.

If you encounter those who insist man's (and woman's of course) will is able to override all those scriptures, truths, wherein God tells us, we plan our way, that is, make choices for our life, but GOD sets our steps. (Puts us where his will wants us to be), that's a nominal (name only) person.

If you read someone that tells you Jesus saved everyone no matter what, that's Universalism and is never and will never be substantiated by scripture. If that were the case? There would be not a single active Christian Missionary on earth. Nor would Christians proselytize, nor would tracts with information to lead people to the truth in Christ exist. Nor would Bibles exist or churches.
If the whole wide world forever is saved, that's it. That means there's no damnation, no sin, no sinners, and no transgression against people or God's law exists.

If you encounter those that work to strip God of his power and authority, that's a Devil. That which denies God's Sovereignty, Omniscience, Omnipresence, Omnipotence, Omnigenesis. Because, as they imply or even insist, we are able to choose and God has no say in the matter at all. That's a Devil.
There are many of those. As the Bible tells us, even Satan can quote scripture and appear as an angel of light. And why not? He was first known as Lucifer, Light Bringer.

Basically the best and easiest way to know you're on the right track, is to read the Bible. People who try to rewrite it don't respect it. Those, who will excerpt a scripture out of context, while arguing the context is contrary to what is actually there, aren't in the word.

God predestined whom he would save before the foundation (creation) of the world. He knows their name, just like he knows the number of hairs on your head, or when a sparrow falls from the sky, that's in scripture too.

Jesus himself tells you he didn't come to save the whole wide world of people for all time and for as long as earth exists!
If God intended that he could just do it. In fact, we would be saved from day one of our creation until now because we would have never been let to fall. But the Book of Eternal life was already written with the names of those whom God would save. Before there was created anything at all. Including earth, the garden, the tree of knowledge, Adam, Eve, the serpent, the curse that let that book become relevant.

When God predetermined whom he would save, he planned the fall. As he tells us. Because you can't write the name of people you'll save from their sins when there is not yet an earth, a people, needing to be saved.
Sin entered the world through one man. Sin pre-existed one man. The first and only man.Adam.

No thing exists that is not of or from God. The Beginning
(Genesis 1:1–2; Hebrews 11:1–3)

John 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning. 3Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made. 4In Him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

Anyone who denies God's Sovereignty is not of God. You'll know them by their LOL at the truth of God's word in Christ.

there are a lot of modern day authors who write books ( for sale out 20-30 $ ) that explain “ the real truth “ and they explain things like you hear in this forum so often.

For Just 29.99 they will explain the real salvation gospel , because “ the one that Jesus preached isn’t really for you “

mostly it’s now the word grace means your saved. So things like getting baptized , that’s a work not grace , thkngs like repenting , that’s not required , thkngs like confessing your sins , that means you have an evil “ sin conscience “ you really are supposed to just thank God your righteous whenever you sin and not acknowledge it “

it’s sad and disturbing but it’s also foretold. If you notice how accurate thkngs like this are

“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I have not seen anyone say the law of Christ doesn't exist.
The law of Christ is the law of love and by this shall we be known as his disciples!
People take apart whatever they want of God's word and obey it as such.
I say unto all of us we must let the Spirit lead us in wisdom on what God is or isn't saying .

The FEAR of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Fear = respect ,awe, and being afraid for Jesus himself told us NOT to fear he that can only kill the body but TO FEAR him that hath power over the whole.( body,soul,spirit)

... only hears what... wants to hear.

... asked to show where anyone has stated the law does not exist. ...

Everyone who enters a BDF on any forum and argue, debate, their beliefs about scripture qualify as teachers. Because that's what they're doing there.

There are three legs upon which OSAS stands or falls. Do these verses mean what they supposedly mean, or have they been misunderstood and misapplied? When we examine them next to other scriptures that clearly contradict them will they hold up? Let's see.

First, 1 John 2:19—"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."

The OSAS interpretation of this verse says that those who "went out" were never in Christ to begin with; they were never saved. However, I suggest there's another meaning that conforms very well with other scriptures. This view says that those who "went out" were indeed saved and in Christ at one point, but were simply not as committed as the others. It's in this sense that they were not "of us." These are those spoken of in the parable of the sower (Matthew 13:5-6): "Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil, but when the sun rose they were scorched. And since they had no root, they withered away." It sprang up, it had life to start with; but it "withered away."

Jesus' explanation of this passage is found in Matthew 13:20-21—"As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy, yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away."

Second is 1 John 3:6—"No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him."

This seems pretty cut and dried: if someone turns away back into sin they never knew Him. But we have to understand this in light of other scriptures that contradict it. Those who "never knew Him," never had a proper understanding of Him. This corresponds to the first group in the parable of the sower: "When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart." The seed was "sown in his heart," but was snatched away because of this person's lack of understanding.

Third is John 10:28—"I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand." I agree with this verse: no one can indeed snatch them out of His hand. However, the person himself can walk away. For this reason I prefer the phrase "forfeit salvation" to "lose salvation."

Now let's look at some scriptures that plainly talk about walking away and falling away. I'm not going to use Hebrews because Hebrews is fiercely objected to by those who advocate OSAS, even though is has many relevant warnings about falling away. But Hebrews isn't necessary—there are plenty of others.

2 Peter 2:20-21—"For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them."

This passage clearly illustrates a person who was once in Christ but who turned their back on Him. This shows a conscious action on the part of the one turning back. These verses correspond with Luke 9:26: "Jesus said to him, 'No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.' "

Matthew 24:10—"And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another."

1 Timothy 4:1—"Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons."

Matthew 24:13—"But the one who endures to the end will be saved."

Why say that those who endure to the end will be saved? If one cannot forfeit their salvation, why didn't He say "But all who have prayed the sinners prayer will be saved?"

Luke 9:26—"Jesus said to him, 'No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.' "

Already mentioned, Luke 9:26 is a clear warning from the Lord about falling away.

That is the claim, isn't it? Calvinism at its worst... denying the influence of Satan, to say, God did it!

Allowing for something to happen is not the same thing as causing something to happen.

Apparently some lack the discernment required to distinguish between the two...

@Icedaisey

Should that not be

"Because that's what we're doing here?

We all debate, argue our beliefs about scripture.

There are three legs upon which OSAS stands or falls. Do these verses mean what they supposedly mean, or have they been misunderstood and misapplied? When we examine them next to other scriptures that clearly contradict them will they hold up? Let's see.

First, 1 John 2:19—"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."

The OSAS interpretation of this verse says that those who "went out" were never in Christ to begin with; they were never saved. However, I suggest there's another meaning that conforms very well with other scriptures. This view says that those who "went out" were indeed saved and in Christ at one point, but were simply not as committed as the others. It's in this sense that they were not "of us." These are those spoken of in the parable of the sower (Matthew 13:5-6): "Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil, but when the sun rose they were scorched. And since they had no root, they withered away." It sprang up, it had life to start with; but it "withered away."

Jesus' explanation of this passage is found in Matthew 13:20-21—"As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy, yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away."

Second is 1 John 3:6—"No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him."

This seems pretty cut and dried: if someone turns away back into sin they never knew Him. But we have to understand this in light of other scriptures that contradict it. Those who "never knew Him," never had a proper understanding of Him. This corresponds to the first group in the parable of the sower: "When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart." The seed was "sown in his heart," but was snatched away because of this person's lack of understanding.

Third is John 10:28—"I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand." I agree with this verse: no one can indeed snatch them out of His hand. However, the person himself can walk away. For this reason I prefer the phrase "forfeit salvation" to "lose salvation."

Now let's look at some scriptures that plainly talk about walking away and falling away. I'm not going to use Hebrews because Hebrews is fiercely objected to by those who advocate OSAS, even though is has many relevant warnings about falling away. But Hebrews isn't necessary—there are plenty of others.

2 Peter 2:20-21—"For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them."

This passage clearly illustrates a person who was once in Christ but who turned their back on Him. This shows a conscious action on the part of the one turning back. These verses correspond with Luke 9:26: "Jesus said to him, 'No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.' "

Matthew 24:10—"And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another."

1 Timothy 4:1—"Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons."

Matthew 24:13—"But the one who endures to the end will be saved."

Why say that those who endure to the end will be saved? If one cannot forfeit their salvation, why didn't He say "But all who have prayed the sinners prayer will be saved?"

Luke 9:26—"Jesus said to him, 'No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.' "

Already mentioned, Luke 9:26 is a clear warning from the Lord about falling away.

If you read through this thread you will see strong views and arguments from both sides OSAS & NOSAS. For what it's worth I think many of us have missed then main point in this discussion "OS". The reality is that you can find verses that support both views and I have heard fine preachers support them. What we should be focusing on is Once Saved and not worry or dispute over something we really cannot answer.
I have read many of the pro & con arguments and the reality is that if someone is going to abuse their salvation based on how they understand OSAS/NOSAS then I would be more inclined to question the reality of their faith or the object of their faith.
I am sure we have all seen or heard of people that have used OSAS as a license for liberalism, to live as they wish and on the other hand have used NOSAS as a reason for legalism, rule keeping will gain you salvation. For me both these views have errors as they have run to either end of the logic pool.
We are saved because of the faithfulness of Christ Jesus as long as we have faith in Christ Jesus. If either of those fail then we are lost.

Hopefully once you accept Jesus you are continually accepting Jesus... O.S. hopefully A.S. .... salvation is a daily, hourly, process. i need to die daily.

Eph 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Is Jesus not the Anchor of our souls ?

i agree
If this is the 3 main verses that OSAS is built on they are built on a twisted interpretation of scripture. Built on sand.
I know that Jesus is able to save all and has done everything needed to save all of mankind that has ever lived. We have all been predestined to salvation, but we can choose to reject that salvation at any time.
Today i can choose to follow Jesus or i can choose to follow my selfish flesh.

If OSAS is teaching the world that Jesus has the gift of eternal life and and forces us to accept it that would be sad. If we have the free choice to accept His salvation by faith, that means we can choose to not accept it as well. God does not force us to be saved.

Jesus is the perfect anchor, the unfailing way to salvation.
BUT we have a choice.. The ladder to heaven, the water of life, the perfect sacrifice, are all given so we can be saved.

We are not forced to use the anchor or walk the road of life. Can i choose to let go of the Anchor? Can i choose to change which road i want to walk on? Why do some let go of the anchor and drift into bad places?

All the confusion would end if people knew the real meaning of salvation. Eternal life is eternal. Those who are born again are already in heaven. The second salvation is conditional. It is better to use the word "deliverance" because "save" has come to mean going to heaven when you die. This is a most shallow concept of salvation and misses the true power and greatness of the salvation that Jesus won for us.

Where is the verse that explicitly states that God directed Adam's steps, causing him to disobey?

Jesus is the perfect anchor, the unfailing way to salvation.
BUT we have a choice.. The ladder to heaven, the water of life, the perfect sacrifice, are all given so we can be saved.

We are not forced to use the anchor or walk the road of life. Can i choose to let go of the Anchor? Can i choose to change which road i want to walk on? Why do some let go of the anchor and drift into bad places?

They left , they leave because they were never saved...
I trust in the Lords word , I believe in Him , His promises are true , I do not doubt Him whatsoever...

The LORD is the anchor to my soul , I am in the Vine , the Father Almighty God has dressed me on the Vine , that is where He has placed me , in His Son for all eternity Amen...