giving to poor

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Nov 26, 2012
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#21
Maybe my translation is different than yours but Deut. 14 doesn’t say what you claim. It also doesn’t say what I thought either. I was under the impression that the tithes (1/10), first grain and newborns were given to the Levites. It states to eat with rejoicing your tithe at the place that is chosen in the presence of the Lord, you and your household, but not to neglect the Levites. Then every third year the Levites and the “poor” may eat the entire tithe to their full.

So according to this if the tithe is shared equally every year, the Levites would receive 5% continually. Then the poor would get the other 1/20 every third year. Is that 1.7% of your earnings to not the poor, but the foreigners, the widows and the fatherless? That doesn’t include the crackheads, fully capable men who are too lazy to work, multigenerational welfare recipients who have multiple children to get bigger handouts from the government and people who neglect nutrition and exercise so now they are “physically incapable” to work.

Apples to apples dude. We are not living in a monarchical society. We have no Caesar. We have a government that is supposed to be chosen by the citizens to serve the citizens. They are paid employees. They take our money and spread it to the poor, the crippled, the underprivileged, the old, the orphans, the minorities and addicted. Many churches have a couple full time employees and a majority are volunteers who most likely have jobs or provision. In that scenario, you may have a 1/50 Holy class dependant on the congregation not 1/12. New wine in new wine skins. We are not under Mosaic Law. We are under the Law of love. Sometimes it’s generous love giving a couple grand to a struggling student who can’t pay their rent, and sometimes tough love, letting a crackhead lose a toe because he spent all of his money on drugs and now he’s outside freezing in the cold. Choices!
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
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#22
the crackheads, fully capable men who are too lazy to work, multigenerational welfare recipients who have multiple children to get bigger handouts from the government and people who neglect nutrition and exercise so now they are “physically incapable” to work.
we were all these things, and worse, spiritually -- and He gave us life
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
13,558
113
#23
Proverbs 28:27 Whoever gives to the poor will lack nothing, but those who close their eyes to poverty will be cursed.

does that still apply today? will u lack nothing if you give?

will you be cursed if you dont give? ive seen things happen to people who dont give if someone asks them

what does God call '
lacking nothing' and what does God call 'cursed' ?
what does God call '
poor' and what does God call 'poverty' ?
what does God call '
closing your eyes' ?

we should think of these things spiritually -- not neglecting to perform them.
they are testimony of Christ, who '
gave gifts to the poor' ((Psalm 112:9)) and is named 'Heir of all things' ((Hebrews 1:2))

not that we shouldn't consider them wise things to do, but we should recognize that the primary purpose of the scripture is to reveal the person of God to us, and that our reward is in heaven, not on earth -- this isn't a formula to become wealthy and powerful on earth, but to store up treasure where moth and rust do not destroy
 
Nov 17, 2017
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#24
Proverbs 28:27 Whoever gives to the poor will lack nothing, but those who close their eyes to poverty will be cursed.
Ps 37:25 I have been young, and [now] am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.
Ps 37:26 [He is] ever merciful, and lendeth; and his seed [is] blessed.
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
6,235
2,530
113
#25
Maybe my translation is different than yours but Deut. 14 doesn’t say what you claim. It also doesn’t say what I thought either. I was under the impression that the tithes (1/10), first grain and newborns were given to the Levites. It states to eat with rejoicing your tithe at the place that is chosen in the presence of the Lord, you and your household, but not to neglect the Levites. Then every third year the Levites and the “poor” may eat the entire tithe to their full.

So according to this if the tithe is shared equally every year, the Levites would receive 5% continually. Then the poor would get the other 1/20 every third year. Is that 1.7% of your earnings to not the poor, but the foreigners, the widows and the fatherless? That doesn’t include the crackheads, fully capable men who are too lazy to work, multigenerational welfare recipients who have multiple children to get bigger handouts from the government and people who neglect nutrition and exercise so now they are “physically incapable” to work.

Apples to apples dude. We are not living in a monarchical society. We have no Caesar. We have a government that is supposed to be chosen by the citizens to serve the citizens. They are paid employees. They take our money and spread it to the poor, the crippled, the underprivileged, the old, the orphans, the minorities and addicted. Many churches have a couple full time employees and a majority are volunteers who most likely have jobs or provision. In that scenario, you may have a 1/50 Holy class dependant on the congregation not 1/12. New wine in new wine skins. We are not under Mosaic Law. We are under the Law of love. Sometimes it’s generous love giving a couple grand to a struggling student who can’t pay their rent, and sometimes tough love, letting a crackhead lose a toe because he spent all of his money on drugs and now he’s outside freezing in the cold. Choices!
Nobody could eat the whole tithe from their fields and flocks in one sitting during the festival... you would only "taste" it in reality. See chapter 12 and 15 as well.
You can't eat a bushel of wheat or corn or barley or more (if it was only that much) in one sitting...

This is the Torah and things are said in song fashion. (It is sung to this day in Synagogues)

But basically things were the way that I said.

Things were changed in the New Testament a bit but the New Covenant still recognizes the poor as a place for offering. So were the Apostles and missionaries for going out to spread the Good News.

The Jews had a lot of festivals (booths/ingathering, first fruits, Passover, atonement day, lights, Purim and etc) all of which involved giving and something akin to a potluck. You never showed up empty handed. The Temple had not only a Treasury but also storehouses which held things like firewood, grain and etc and on-site and off-site had pens and pastures for sheep and cattle and other animals for sacrifice. And as you see in the New Testament people went there when poor to get an allowance of food during times of economic distress.

Today your pastor of your church you attend would love it if you gave the whole tenth to that organization. And indeed you should give him something regularly by sharing the good things you receive in life. But in my house we don't give him the whole tenth...he doesn't need it nor do I need the feelings of buying the place. We do store the whole tenth...and as we engage in the community we see opportunities for giving. Open handed and completely willing to give to missionaries on fund raising tours and whoever. The money sits in it's own account and not mixed in with any of our money. We don't touch it or want it. (It's full because of pandemic but we have contacted some missionaries still quarantined in field and given to them which they sorely needed)

The poor are poor for good reasons... usually the poor decisions they have made. Here in America the poor are usually poor because they won't work instead of can't work...and making the poor too comfortable is never a good idea... same thing with the pastors and ministers. Of course the poor waste money...but it's not about helping them as much as it is benefitting me and my attitude about money.

A person either has more than enough or never enough. And the attitude you choose carries throughout your whole life.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,319
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#26
I don't believe this proverb is necessarily talking about monetary gain, such as the person who gives to the poor will be rich one day, or that the stingy rich man will be poor one day, etc. I believe this verse is saying that the giving person will have joy and contentment, whereas the stingy person will be cursed in that he won't experience such joy and may even be miserable (like Scrooge) despite his wealth.
That's a great point.
 
Nov 26, 2012
3,095
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#27
we were all these things, and worse, spiritually -- and He gave us life
Absolutely through repentance. I’d be the first guy to help a person change his/her life. I feel bad for the people who choose to be losers, but I don’t feel inclined to enable them.
 
Oct 2, 2021
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#28
what does God call 'lacking nothing' and what does God call 'cursed' ?
what does God call '
poor' and what does God call 'poverty' ?
what does God call '
closing your eyes' ?


we should think of these things spiritually -- not neglecting to perform them.
they are testimony of Christ, who '
gave gifts to the poor' ((Psalm 112:9)) and is named 'Heir of all things' ((Hebrews 1:2))


not that we shouldn't consider them wise things to do, but we should recognize that the primary purpose of the scripture is to reveal the person of God to us, and that our reward is in heaven, not on earth -- this isn't a formula to become wealthy and powerful on earth, but to store up treasure where moth and rust do not destroy
the whole point of giving is to gain treasure in heaven. thats a reason to go to work to earn money so we can use the funds to gain treasure in heaven.
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
6,235
2,530
113
#29
Some people are just "natural givers" while others are "takers".

In our quest to be more like Jesus we become generous givers. For some it's easier than others.

However... wise as serpents but gentle as doves.
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
1,398
475
83
#30
Proverbs 28:27 Whoever gives to the poor will lack nothing, but those who close their eyes to poverty will be cursed.

does that still apply today? will u lack nothing if you give?

will you be cursed if you dont give? ive seen things happen to people who dont give if someone asks them
Jesus said, “The poor you will always have with you.” Matthew 26:11

We can always help those less fortunate. Because one day we could be they.
I should note here: Often times we'll see people holding homemade signs claiming they're homeless and need help. There are far too many tax free scammers out there to take that lightly.

IF you feel compelled to give to those people, I would suggest you bring them something to eat and/or drink. Think how it would be handled by a real homeless person when you do though, just in case they are sincere. Don't bring something they'll need a kitchen to avail themselves of in order to feed their hunger.

Got old clothes? Donate to homeless shelters. Did you get something for the holidays you'll never wear? Donate it to the homeless shelters. Goodwill is a good idea but for the fact homeless rarely if ever shop there.
But homeless shelters, and local police should be able to help you locate those if you call, always need help. Even as volunteers.

Save for the grace of God.....
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
1,398
475
83
#31
the whole point of giving is to gain treasure in heaven. thats a reason to go to work to earn money so we can use the funds to gain treasure in heaven.
If we give so that we'll earn treasure in Heaven, if that reward in the afterlife is the impetus, we'll find we have nothing waiting for us once we arrive. Because God see's the heart.
Quid pro quo, is not charity. It's selfish prideful materialism. Which doesn't fly in Heaven.