Obstinate Learner

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

NetChaplain

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2018
734
258
63
#1
“If we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins” (Heb 10:26 KJV).” “If we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins” (NLT).

If it were said that one received the truth (the Gospel), it could be correctly conceived that one believed and accepted salvation. But this passage refers to, not the truth but the “knowledge of the truth.” Can one reborn (saved) continue to live sinning intentionally—as was prior to rebirth? No! This would prove the absence of rebirth. The design of the passage intends the sense of one coming to know what the Gospel is, and continues to willingly live in sin, without receiving the Gospel—but only receiving (discovering) the knowledge of it.

“It had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness (receive the knowledge of the truth), than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment” (2Pe 2:21). “They would not be guilty if I had not come and spoken to them. But now they have no excuse for their sin” (Jhn 15:22, 24).

“And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more” (Luk 12:47, 48). This answers to the saying that “proportionate to a man's light is his guilt!”
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,314
3,618
113
#2
“If we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins” (Heb 10:26 KJV).” “If we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins” (NLT).

If it were said that one received the truth (the Gospel), it could be correctly conceived that one believed and accepted salvation. But this passage refers to, not the truth but the “knowledge of the truth.” Can one reborn (saved) continue to live sinning intentionally—as was prior to rebirth? No! This would prove the absence of rebirth. The design of the passage intends the sense of one coming to know what the Gospel is, and continues to willingly live in sin, without receiving the Gospel—but only receiving (discovering) the knowledge of it.
If you read the verses right before 10:26 it's clear the author is talking to born-again believers:

"Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful. And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.
For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries."

The first paragraph is talking about born-again believers. It wouldn't make any sense to switch in midstream and start talking about unbelievers.

Not only that, if we assume the second paragraph refers to unbelievers, a whole host of other problems arise. For example, if a person rejects the knowledge of the truth, does that mean they can never accept it in the future? How many chances does a person get before a "sacrifice for sins" no longer remains? If an unsaved person rejects the truth, why would they have a fearful expectation of judgment? It seems to me that if an unsaved person rejects Christ they do so precisely because they don't have fear of a future judgment.

The reason the author exhorts the believers to meet together and encourage one another in the first paragraph is because we need encouragement from one another to help us not give up; that's a very real possibility.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
42,597
17,062
113
69
Tennessee
#3
? It seems to me that if an unsaved person rejects Christ they do so precisely because they don't have fear of a future judgment.
Even Satan fears God and therefore judgement.

James 2;19
You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#4
If you read the verses right before 10:26 it's clear the author is talking to born-again believers:

"Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful. And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.
For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries."

The first paragraph is talking about born-again believers. It wouldn't make any sense to switch in midstream and start talking about unbelievers.

Not only that, if we assume the second paragraph refers to unbelievers, a whole host of other problems arise. For example, if a person rejects the knowledge of the truth, does that mean they can never accept it in the future? How many chances does a person get before a "sacrifice for sins" no longer remains? If an unsaved person rejects the truth, why would they have a fearful expectation of judgment? It seems to me that if an unsaved person rejects Christ they do so precisely because they don't have fear of a future judgment.

The reason the author exhorts the believers to meet together and encourage one another in the first paragraph is because we need encouragement from one another to help us not give up; that's a very real possibility.
Alternatively, and most likely I believe, those verses are referring to Jews who used animal sacrifices for sin offerings. If they sinned again then their animal sacrifice was insufficient to be an effective sin offering. Unlike the blood of Christ, who forgives sins once and for all, the blood of bulls and lambs cannot permanently forgive sins. This much is clear from the broader context.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
5,360
3,161
113
#5
“If we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins” (Heb 10:26 KJV).” “If we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins” (NLT).

If it were said that one received the truth (the Gospel), it could be correctly conceived that one believed and accepted salvation. But this passage refers to, not the truth but the “knowledge of the truth.” Can one reborn (saved) continue to live sinning intentionally—as was prior to rebirth? No! This would prove the absence of rebirth. The design of the passage intends the sense of one coming to know what the Gospel is, and continues to willingly live in sin, without receiving the Gospel—but only receiving (discovering) the knowledge of it.

“It had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness (receive the knowledge of the truth), than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment” (2Pe 2:21). “They would not be guilty if I had not come and spoken to them. But now they have no excuse for their sin” (Jhn 15:22, 24).

“And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more” (Luk 12:47, 48). This answers to the saying that “proportionate to a man's light is his guilt!”
The reference to "no more sacrifice" is often misunderstood. The letter was addressed to Christians who were born as Hebrews. The fundamental exhortation is not to revert to Judaism. These people had endured much, including the confiscation of their homes. The writer is encouraging them not to quit.

There indeed is no more sacrifice for sin if someone decides revert to temple worship. The blood of Christ removes sin whereas the blood of animals only covered sin up. Can people lose their salvation if they are born again? No. Eternal life is just that, eternal. Can they lose the blessing of love, joy, peace, a clear conscience and the approval of God? Most certainly. There is nothing more miserable than a Christian who lives in guilt and condemnation. Yet the moment that person confesses their sin, God forgives and restores them. I've seen this many times over the last 50 years and I've experienced this myself.

Satan is the accuser of the brethren. He never stops. And we certainly give him the ammunition from time to time. The danger is that we remain in condemnation and fail to accept the provision of God's loving gift of His Son. There have been a few like this on the forum. We need to know that the worst sin we can commit is doubt and unbelief, which is one of the things that Hebrews covers. Doubt and unbelief is to call into question God's character and nature. The doubter is calling God a liar. Only when the individual repents and confesses will he or she be restored.

Too many Christians sit on the fence - which in reality does not exist. We need to be totally consecrated to Christ and let Him be Lord, not just in words, but in reality. We can all sing, "All to Jesus, I surrender". Words are cheap. If Jesus is not Lord of all, then He is not Lord at all. Much struggle, failure and defeat could be avoided if Christians yielded to Lord Jesus without conditions. Only the consecrated live in victory.
 

NetChaplain

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2018
734
258
63
#6
If you read the verses right before 10:26 it's clear the author is talking to born-again believers:

"Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful. And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.
For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries."

The first paragraph is talking about born-again believers. It wouldn't make any sense to switch in midstream and start talking about unbelievers..
New Testament Scripture's scheme of everything is persistently in that of identifying genuine Christians from the false, which is an ongoing issue through the entirety of the NT, and our walk. These passages, like Heb 6:4-6 are hypothetical in the sense that "if" one who is saved manifests living in presumptuous and intentional sin, they would become lost. The premise is hypothetical because it's never written in Scripture that one who is saved can again desire be a part of the "old man" (Ro 8:9); thus showing that salvation can be obtained only once, and will never need to receive it again.

John Gill: "after that we have received the knowledge of the Truth "; "there may be a notional knowledge, when there is no experimental knowledge; and which is received not into the heart, but into the head: and whereas the apostle speaks in the first person plural, we, this is used not so much with regard to himself, but others."
https://www.christianity.com/bible/commentary/john-gill/hebrews/10

Albert Barnes: "this passage refers to true Christians, and that the doctrine here taught is, that if such an one should apostatize, he must look forward only to the terrors of the judgment, and to final condemnation." These passages merely state a reaction that would occur if such case would be possible. In my understanding, one professing Christianity and giving the appearance of a genuine believer will eventually cease from it all if its a hypocrite (not reborn), and their "sin will find them out" (Num 32:23).
https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/bnb/hebrews-10.html
 

NetChaplain

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2018
734
258
63
#7
Can people lose their salvation if they are born again? No. Eternal life is just that, eternal. Can they lose the blessing of love, joy, peace, a clear conscience and the approval of God?.
I like much of what you've replied, but it's my understanding that one who is truly reborn will have permanently lost the desire to follow the sin nature (old man, or "flesh" - Ro 8:9; Phl 2:13).
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
42,597
17,062
113
69
Tennessee
#8
These passages, like Heb 6:4-6 are hypothetical in the sense that "if" one who is saved manifests living in presumptuous and intentional sin, they would become lost. The premise is hypothetical because it's never written in Scripture that one who is saved can again desire be a part of the "old man" (Ro 8:9); thus showing that salvation can be obtained only once, and will never need to receive it again.
I fully concur with your estimation. Unless it is emphatically stated in scripture that it is possible for someone, who has received salvation to desire to return to their old 'man' it remains hypothetical only that one can lose their salvation having once received it.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
42,597
17,062
113
69
Tennessee
#9
I like much of what you've replied, but it's my understanding that one who is truly reborn will have permanently lost the desire to follow the sin nature (old man, or "flesh" - Ro 8:9; Phl 2:13).
Absolutely on target.