Jesus Came To Fulfill Not To Destroy

That law you quoting by Paul is not talking about the Commandments (Royal Law), but the animal Sacrificial law. Paul didn’t come preaching and teaching his own thing, but he abided in the doctrine of Christ. (Rom. 3:20) Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sights for by the law is the knowledge of sin. Two different laws in this one verse.

The deeds of the law is referring to the animal sacrificial laws, all those sacrifices can never remove sins, so they could never be justified. This is true because the blood of Jesus can only justify us. The animal sacrificial laws was added because people continue to sin, and the wages of sin bring for death. So instead of God killing people every time they sin, he gave Moses a law to use, animals. So by the other law (Ten Commandments, statutes and Judgement) is the knowledge of sin.

Paul says in Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. You wouldn’t know what sin was if there was no law.

I've said it over and over again....
There are two laws (more then two), that need to be understood or the bible is contradicting itself.
It makes sense when you realize which law we no longer need to follow and which law defines sin.
We will always need Christs righteousness to cover our sinfulness if there is a law that is actively condemning us today.
No law = no need for Christs blood.

i am quite familiar with the Apostle's clear message that is Authored by the Holy Spirit and not man.

Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God.
Therefore no one will be justified in His sight by works of the law. For the law merely brings awareness of sin.

But now, apart from the law, the righteousness of God has been revealed, as attested by the Law and the Prophets.
And this righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.

There is no distinction, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

Brotan - this is a children's Book written for His Children. Faith in Him and His word is KEY

If you have been Born-Again by the Circumcision made without hands you need not earn His Peace.
But seek after the Promise of the Father which the Lord instructed that we should do - John ch1 and Acts ch1 -2

Grace Mercy and Peace to you thru Jesus Christ our Lord - Amen

All have sinned so all have transgressed a law. We all fail to keep the law ourselves.
Because our righteousness comes from Christs perfect obedience do we continue to transgress the law that grace may abound? do we frustrate Gods loving mercyful longsuffering grace because of sinful selfish desires? No
Keep the law (stop sinning) because you love Jesus.
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Right...because the law is spiritual.

When God told us, in the ten commandments, "Thou shalt not steal" he said a little bit later that it is a sin to even covet.

He was hinting at the spiritual nature of the law.

Laws that applied only outwardly also have spiritual implications.

This was hinted at in the ten commandments;

And when Jesus came He expounded on this concept greatly in His Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5-7).

The law of God, as it is written on the hearts and minds of New Covenant believers (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5; 1 John 2:3-6, 1 Corinthians 9:21), is spiritual...it applies to inward motives because it is even written on the hearts and minds of New Covenant believers (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5; 1 John 2:3-6, 1 Corinthians 9:21).

Yes, it is the LAW which contains the "Seal of God" by which the Holy Spirit seals New Covenant disciples of Christ, while Antichrist has a "Mark" he desires to place upon his disciples, as well. Even Revelation contrasts those who get the Mark with those who do not which "keep the commandments of God", which indicates the Marked ones are BREAKING the commandments of God.

You are right in saying that the law shows us our sin so that we can repent of sin; since sin is the transgression of the law do we not begin to walk in obedience to the law when we have come to repent of sin?

I also agree that we are not justified by law-keeping; our observance of the law does not become our righteousness as believers but our wisdom.

Our righteousness is solely in the blood of Jesus Christ.

Being thus justified, we do not become a disobedient people (Titus 3:3); we become obedient.

God tell us what He desires of us in our conduct when He has given us the law.

It is clear that we cannot be saved by our conduct;

However, once we are saved, it is going to produce a radical change in our conduct.

The one who is born of God doth not commit sin, for His seed remaineth in him; and he cannot sin because he is born of God (1 John 3:9).

Sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4).

I do not mix these things up by teaching wrongly about this scripture, that it means we must walk in perfection in order to be born again.

I teach rightly that if we are truly born again, we will walk in the perfection that is spoken of here.

And it may indeed be hyperbole in 1 John 3:9...exaggeration to make a point.

What point? that the life of a man will change when he is born again...he will no longer be walking in the direction of sin, death, hell, and satan but has made a 180-degree turn towards righteousness, life, heaven, and God.

He is walking in a new direction.

As it is written,

Pro 4:18, But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.

Paul says Christians ought to know if they serve sin, it is unto death, while obedience is unto life. Of course, antinomianists in their stunted spiritual growth will seize upon this idea as "salvation by works" because they either do not or will not understand that obedience can ONLY be accomplished by "Christ in you, the hope of glory", while a heart devoid of Christ cannot obey God's law even if it wanted to, according to Romans 8:7 KJV.

And of course I have brought the above scripture to bear on the interpretation of Galatians 3:10...

For the one who is seeking to be justified by the law, his works, or by personal merits, he is required to keep the whole law perfectly from conception to eternity. For if he breaks even one aspect of the law, he is guilty of breaking all of it (James 2:10).

However, the person who knows that he knows that he knows that he is justified through faith in the blood of Christ, he will be blessed in his deed if he looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it (James 1:25).

Yes; the perfect law of liberty is every moral tenet given in the Old and New Testaments.

Being justified wholly through faith in the blood of Christ, there is no condemnation for seeking to be justified by the law...because he is not seeking justification in keeping the law. That is not his motivation for keeping it.

It is so that he can have a clean and good conscience...and it is to that he might be blessed in what he does (James 1:25). Therefore, law-keeping, for the one who is justified through faith in the blood of Christ, is not his righteousness but his wisdom.

Now, it should be clear that we are exhorted not to sin in 1 Corinthians 15:34 and in Ephesians 4:26.

And that sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4).

We are told to repent in order that we might be saved.

That means to turn away from sin.

The law, that shows us what sin is, truly has no power to set a man free from his sins.

In fact, we find victory over sins when we are set free from the law's condemnation.

It remains that the law defines for us what is sin and we know whether or not we have sinned in any instance because the law shows us that we have sinned; in that it identifies sin by defining it for us. If not for the law we would not know what it is that we are supposed to repent of.

When we have truly repented, it will be evidenced by the fact that when we come in contact with the law, the law will not any longer show us that we are sinners. When we measure our lives by the plumb line that is the law, there will be no law that condemns us because we will find that in receiving the love of God and in walking according to it, we are not any longer violating any of the moral tenets that used to condemn us as sinners.

We are redeemed when we receive the love of the Lord into our hearts.

Since the law identifies the specifics of God's love for those who have it, I would say that if we violate love we violate the law; and vice versa.

That would be an indication that we have not yet been redeemed; because it would show that the love of the Lord has not yet been shed abroad in our heart.

Hi, your interpretation of James 2:10 is a popular BUT FLAWED interpretation. The fact is that even PERFECT obedience to the law will still land the sinner in hellfire. Why?

Because one's perfect obedience going forward does nothing to mitigate the condemnation earned by his disobedience in the past.

James 2:10 isn't telling us to stop trying to gain justification be works - he's telling us exactly what the text says: that if we think we can pick and choose which laws we will keep and which we will disregard (like the Seventh-day Sabbath of the Fourth commandment) we will stand guilty before God in the Judgment.

Like a man standing before his bride at the altar promising to be faithful on even numbered months of the year...will she go for that? Then why do you hyper-grace antinomianists think God is satisfied with partial obedience?

As I have said a million times on here before,

We have a righteousness apart from the law that is nevertheless attested to by the law and the prophets (Romans 3:21) that it is righteousness indeed.

If we bear the fruit of the Spirit, there is no law that will condemn us in our behaviour (Galatians 5:22-23). Iow, we become law-abiding citizens of the kingdom of heaven when we bear the fruit of the Spirit.

When we walk according to the Spirit rather than the flesh, the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4).

This righteousness is not obtained through attempting to obey a set of do's and don'ts;

It is obtained when we receive the Holy Spirit by faith (Galatians 3:14) and then begin to walk according to the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23, Romans 8:4).

That being said, if we turn our ears away from hearing the law, even our prayer shall be an abomination (Proverbs 28:9).

If we look into the perfect law of liberty and continue in it, we will be blessed in what we do (James 1:25).

The "perfect law of liberty" is the one referred to be James as "thou shalt not kill" and "thou shalt not commit adultery" -- THE TEN COMMANDMENTS. If we look at the Ten Commandments and discover we aren't keeping one, we are to go to our knees and confess and ask for power to do so, believeing that Christ in us will accomplish that for which we pray.

Is it your contention that a man can be fully obedient to the letter of the law?

I think that Galatians 6:13 might tell you different; and also, Galatians 3:22.

“since sin is the transgression of the law do we not begin to walk in obedience to the law when we have come to repent of sin?”

My belief is no we can’t repent under the law it’s not possible to do so it demands by commandment death to the sinner without mercy once you sin the law says “ you must surely die “ but we have the word of Christ now that we’re baptized into him.

We’re his disciples now we belong to a new word and living way that allows for repentance and salvation of sinners .

Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭31:15‬ ‭KJv

And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death.”
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭24:16

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.”
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭20:13‬ ‭KJv

“And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.”
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭20:10‬ ‭

At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭17:6‬ ‭KJV‬

That’s just some examples , do you see how the law isn’t about repentance and sinners being saved ? But sinners witnessing against each other for justification of sin and condemnation and death ?

But it is the “ ministration of death “ that was engraved on the stones we’re reading there

“But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

For if the ministration of condemnation be glory,

much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament;

which veil is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:6-7, 9, 11-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Moses words can never be altered now that he died what’s written is written so all He said is Moses law the sin and death he commanded in his book make up his law he has a law for priests , for the people , for every detail of the Hebrew life in those ancient times. To change Moses law is the same as to add or remove something to Christs word we’re warned not to change the law of Moses also

you can see how that can only create accusations against other sinners , pointing fingers , constant witnessing against people by commandment and death to all When they make a mistake eventually and are caught in sin the worst of sinners suffered this fate by law

“And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree:

His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God ) that thy land be not defiled, which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭21:22-23‬ ‭


And so this is how Jesus fulfilled the law for all sinners who have broken the law

“Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭2:24-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:13‬ ‭

he died because the law demands all sinners die once they die hey can. Or legally belong to another testament the old has concluded the person. Sinned and died through Christ the law is fulfilled now nothing is left .

now we can just do this and live

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We came to death by what the law says , but come to Life by what Christ says both are good right and holy but the y are two parts of a plan that one came and fulfilled its purpose now the new is being fulfilled until the end each testament has a mediator of Gods word Moses the old and Jesus himself the new we want the New Testament of his promised mercy and truth and light and life

I apologize if I have offended you in any discussions it wasn’t meant that way if I did , God bless and loves you much and we both agree that we need Jesus and he is the lord so that’s always a good place to rest regardless of our twkenon
Moses law differing

I find a lot of value in your thoughts and arguments honestly the law of Moses is something we differ about but there’s a lot of agreement I see in your words usually so anyways thanks again bro for the talk I enjoy discussing deeper issues and concepts in scripture and appreciate your time and consideration

I would say to this that the fact that we live unto righteousness has to do with the fact that we have repented of sinning; and that sinning is to transgress the law;

Regardless of the penalties that are required by the law for sins committed, I believe that the law that is written on the hearts and minds of New Covenant believers is basically personal to the believer apart from penalties. Because the believer in Christ, has the love of the Lord shed abroad in his heart; and therefore is obedient to the spirit of the law and therefore will not exact any penalties.

The penalties also are null and void because the believer is not under the law (Romans 6:14), is dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19) and is delivered from the law (Romans 7:6) as concerning condemnation.

All that is left of the law of the Lord in the believer's life, therefore, is the moral tenets that he is obedient to because the love of the Lord has been shed abroad in his heart. These laws are written on his heart and mind inasmuch as he has been filled with the love of Jesus Christ and this love is the fulfilling of the law.

It remains that for the sinner, the law of God gives him the knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20); it shows him that he is a sinner in need of the Saviour.

For the one who is born of God, he doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in hin; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God (1 John 3:9).

Therefore if the law pinpoints of you the fact that you are a sinner, it should be clear to you that you are not born of God.

But of course this is referring to you only if you are consistently walking in the direction of sin. In such a case, the fact that you consistently violate the law of the Lord should indicate to you that you are not born again (I am not saying specifically you, @Pilgrimshope). If you are consistently violating the law of God it is a sign to you that you have not yet been redeemed from all iniquity (Titus 2:14). If you violate it even once it indicates that.

So, I believe that righteousness is imputed to the man who lays hold of the promises of God and does not waver in faith concerning them (Romans 4:20-22).

Such promises that I would mention are:

1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (kjv, Hebrews 10:14 (kjv), 1 John 3:9 (kjv);

1 John 3:7, 1 John 3:3, 1 John 2:6;

1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17;

Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10.

These are promises concerning being sanctified wholly.

Therefore, if you believe in these promises and are believing in the Lord to accomplish them in your life, you are indeed justified by faith even if He has not yet manifested the results of these promises in your life.

If you believe that He is able to sanctify you wholly and are also asking, seeking, and knocking for Him to do that in you, then He sees the finished product rather than what you look like now in your Christian walk. Because such an attitude will apprehend the reality of these promises being fulfilled in you life in due season; and therefore, if you are trusting Him to do these things in you, you would be taken straight to heaven if you were to die before those promises are brought to fruition in your life. The work will be completed when you see Him if you desire it.

And of course, it is also true that if you have this hope in Him, you purify yourself even as He is pure (1 John 3:2-3).

And if you desire it, it is only a matter of time before you receive it in this life (provided you don't pass into the next life before it can be accomplished); for if you delight yourself in the LORD, He will give you the desires of your heart (Psalms 37:4).

A question to all that believe there is no law... Have you sinned in the last year? If no you must be mad or a very good Christian. If yes understand that sin is the transgression of the law and sin started in heaven and will be happening until all sin is destroyed.
The law of God is not gone but the solution to breaking it has been paid. We do not need to die for transgressing it but we need to repent.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

In a lawless world things would be chaos and people would kill and lie and steal to get what they desire. Laws are in place to keep order and God has laws of love to keep order in His universe. Laws of nature keep things in order. (gravity, physics,)
If you are guilty for a crime and charged with death it would be a sad outcome unless someone stood up and said they would pay for your crime. Your debt is paid, you have another chance. Does that mean the law is no longer relevant for you? No It means that the penalty for breaking the law has been paid.
The same today Christ paid the price and we can stand guiltless but that doesn't mean the law is no longer working, it doesn't mean we can all break the law and ignore the law. We are saved because of Jesus by faith in His righteousness but we desire to be like Him and He obeyed the law perfectly because that is love.
Joh_15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
1Jn_5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

Get rid of the second to last sentence and your spot on - stop trying to bring the works of the law in the back door.

Proverbs 28:9 now speaks of us turning our ears away from Christ.

Through faith in Jesus Christ we are no longer under the law (Romans 6:14), are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19) and are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6) as concerning condemnation.

As concerning obedience we are under the law to Christ (1 Corinthians 9:21)...the law is written on the heart and mind of the New Covenant believer (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5; 1 John 2:3-6).

Our motivation for obedience is no longer fear of condemnation; with the law as a condemning taskmaster.

It is that the love of the Lord has been shed abroad in our hearts (Romans 5:5) and therefore we fulfill the righteousness of the law in our behaviour (Romans 13:8-10, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6; Romans 8:4). For this love that the Lord has placed within us is not impractical (1 John 3:17-18).