Once Saved Always Saved is True.

That passage from Revelation is directed at those who are not saved. No individual that truly belongs to the Lord will try intently distorted His Gospel. Think of the doctrines of Mormonisms, JW, and even some Protestant denominations. They preach another Christ.

Wow Aerials--we have said over and over and OVER again, that we do not believe in a works based salvation. Please go back and re-read our posts--this is so frustrating. Why can't you understand that? Jesus said ABIDE. Jesus said OBEY. Why do we obey? Why do we Abide--out of LOVE and out of reverence--we believe what God says --we are to 'work out our salvation in fear and trembling'--not a fear of damnation--i have ZERO fear of that---no it is because I know who God is --it is the same healthy fear a child has of a loving parent.

We aren't trying to EARN Salvation--we already have it. And no one has to fear losing it as long as they ABIDE and OBEY.

Do we sin? Yes EVERY DAY--in some negative thought or how we treat others--in anger in doubt, etc. But the bible says "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."--1 John 1:9

This walk is a walk of Surrender. Of Abiding. Of obedience out of our love for Him.

There are two camps on the falling away side and two side of the same coin--those who no longer believe and those who live a life in a continual life of sin--God is not prayed to, sin is not confessed--it is their WALK, not a stumble in that walk.

OSAS is why the church is so broken and so many Christians live like the world.

this makes no sense--no mormon or JW or anyone who preaches another Christ would be written in God's Book of LIFE!

This has become a fruitless conversation. Don’t sow discord


Of course they added on to it. JW believes only 144,000.00 will be chosen from the JW religion. Obviously they missed John’s warning. Are you justing looking to argue with someone today?

It seems to me to be the other way round. I am making a point--how is that arguing--because I disagree with you? You seem to have taken the position of 'parent' in the discussion. Guess what? I am an adult and free to support my position just as much as you are yours.

Btw, I have no idea why your explaining what JW's believe in the first place--MY point is they would NEVER be written in God's Book of Life!

PS Also, if you think I am 'spreading' discord, then I would think you wouldn't want to engage me further.

Pps To your mind it is fruitless because I and Charlie are standing our ground and are not in any way changed in our positions.

You injected yourself, I didn’t come to you. The reason I brought up the JW is because they did indeed added and to the NT as well as the Mormons. We both know that.

Who was John addressing than? Believers that pick and chose scripture in which they adhere to, or heretics?

You injected yourself, I didn’t come to you. The reason I brought up the JW is because they did indeed added and to the NT as well as the Mormons. We both know that.

Who was John addressing than? Believers that pick and chose scripture in which they adhere to, or heretics?

But you did choose to respond.

In all the the forums people participate freely, even to posts not directed to them--I'm sorry if you feel I shouldn't have and will take note of that in the future.

Scripture should be tested against Scripture--isolation of verses always leads to fanaticism and false doctrine. It clearly says a believer can fall away in Hebrews. Jesus said if you don't abide in him you will be like the branches that are cast into the fired and destroyed--abiding comes after Salvation--we can only abide in something we already have.

Also, you ask who John is addressing--in Revelation? If not, please post the scripture you referring to. Scripture as a whole is addressed to believers, since otherwise "it is nonsense to those who are perishing."

I think we might be missing each other here. That certainly happens when a text conversation occurs. I’m not talking about a person who reads 3:16, makes the sinners prayer and believes God is obligate to hold to that legally they go about as a worldly individual.

What I’m talking about is an individual who has believed in the risen Lord and is obedient. Now, can that Christian stumble and fall into sin for a season or more? Yes. Do they lose their justification? No, but they can hamper their sanctification. God may even end their life because of repetitive sin.

The doctrine of the elect is hard understand and of course we get the God sovereign vs free will debate. Through out scripture we see that God has persevered a group of people until himself(The 7,000 God had reserved for himself during the reign King Ahab as an example)

Again, I not talking about people who simply gave lip service and moved on. I’m talking about the few that are actually in Christ.

Then who are the people that have been enlightened to the truth but fell away.

Who are the people that say Lord Lord and labored for the kingdom but cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.

Who are the people that were saved but were cut off because they did not continue in the goodness of God.

Salvation cannot be lost if one is led of the Spirit and a Spirit led life will not sin.

No I'm not either--nearly all churches I have ever attended believe 'once saved always saved'--I disagreed simply by reading the scriptures that say otherwise. Once Saved Always Saved originated with John Calvin's T.U.L.I.P. Doctrine''the perseverance of the saints'--and tied to that belief , God predestined those who would be saved and those who would be damned. There are many problems with this--unfortunately, similarly to the Mormons, there are Christians who simply believe what they've been taught and don't investigate the whole of scripture for themselves.

The typical response from those who don't believe a Christian can fall away is that the person wasn't a true Christian. However, you can find numerous stories online as well as on youtube--I have met these Christians myself, my own sister being one of them as well as my uncle who was a pastor in the Presbyterian church, no less. Both now dead having never come back to the faith.

There's a saying "If you tell a lie often enough it becomes truth--sadly that is what has happened with once saved always saved--it is the reason our churches are so devoid of life and the spirit--they are man centered and complacent as a whole. We were warned in the first century about false teachers--of course they have multiplied since then--and these aren't the Joel Olsteens' and the Kenneth Copelands--they are in our mainstream churches.

My my, how nasty a reply is this.
Joel Osteen and Kenneth Copeland in the same sentence.
Do you think maybe some followers of either of these men are listening in?
Or do you not care?

Nasty? Jesus, Paul, and others called out false teachers and we should do likewise. And I hope they are listening in!

"“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves."--Matthew 7:15

Additiionally, I dont see that we or any others had a discussion about what JW's believe. Again--the book of life are those who receive eternal life. If a person never believes in the one true God and on the Savior the Lord Jesus Christ, it is impossible for their names to be ever written in the book of life--no more than an atheist's would.

The book of life is only for the righteous--exodus, the psalms, and revelation all say a person that was once faithful can be removed from the book of life.

No I'm not either--nearly all churches I have ever attended believe 'once saved always saved'--I disagreed simply by reading the scriptures that say otherwise. Once Saved Always Saved originated with John Calvin's T.U.L.I.P. Doctrine''the perseverance of the saints'--and tied to that belief , God predestined those who would be saved and those who would be damned. There are many problems with this--unfortunately, similarly to the Mormons, there are Christians who simply believe what they've been taught and don't investigate the whole of scripture for themselves.

The typical response from those who don't believe a Christian can fall away is that the person wasn't a true Christian. However, you can find numerous stories online as well as on youtube--I have met these Christians myself, my own sister being one of them as well as my uncle who was a pastor in the Presbyterian church, no less. Both now dead having never come back to the faith.

There's a saying "If you tell a lie often enough it becomes truth--sadly that is what has happened with once saved always saved--it is the reason our churches are so devoid of life and the spirit--they are man centered and complacent as a whole. We were warned in the first century about false teachers--of course they have multiplied since then--and these aren't the Joel Olsteens' and the Kenneth Copelands--they are in our mainstream churches.

Okay, you started this.
How many times have you ever watched a Lakewood church service on you tube every Sunday morning?
I watch regularly.
It is my church.
And after 36 years, it is without a doubt the best church I've ever attended.
And I've been to just about them all.
If you've seen one recently, what can you say is wrong about it?
I bet you've never watched one.
You bad mouth one of God's servants as though you actually know what you are talking about.

Roman's 14:4; "Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand."

While I certainly don’t disagree on the current state of the Western Church and it’s utter decline in sound theology, I still don’t believe that nullifies God’s promise to His people.

We did nothing to earn it so how can we lose it? If we’re responsible for my own salvation, I would lose it daily as would everyone else. One sin no matter how small would disqualify us.

Dear me, it seems you haven't read most of what I've written--'earn' is a legalistic term and I've already said it's not about that--and earn and lose are not opposites--have and lost are. I can be given the gift of a diamond ring and lose that ring--it was a gift, so I in no way earned it.

He is not one of God's servants. He is a false teacher, just like Kenneth Copeland, Tod White, Bennie Hinn and the rest of them. Do an internet search "Joel Olsteen"+"False Teacher" you will find a multitude of articles like this one:

Who Is Joel Osteen and are his Teachings Biblical?

Overarching all that Joel and Victoria Osteen teach is the prosperity gospel: God’s will is that we be blessed with material things, a view that contradicts 1 Timothy 6:6. As the Lakewood Church’s website says, “To be successful in your walk with God, commit to honor God with your finances. When you commit to give the Lord the first 10% of your income, God promises He will pour out blessings you cannot contain. Tithing is the first key to financial prosperity.” Lakewood’s website then quotes the favorite proof-text for this teaching, Malachi 3:10. It is a prime example of taking Old Covenant promises to Israel out of context to apply them to New Covenant believers.

Another problem in Osteen’s message is his promotion of name-it-claim-it or word-faith theology: “We have to conceive it on the inside before we’re ever going to receive it on the outside,” Osteen writes. “If you don’t think you can have something good, then you never will. The barrier is in your mind. . . . Your own wrong thinking can keep you from God’s best. . . . To experience [God’s] immeasurable favor, you must rid yourself of that small-minded thinking and start expecting God’s blessings, start anticipating promotion and supernatural increase. You must conceive it in your heart before you can receive it. In other words, you must make increase in your own thinking, then God will bring those things to pass” (from Your Best Life Now, chapter 1). There is nothing biblical about such teaching. There is no power inherent in positive thinking, and we do not create our own realities. God is not our servant, standing by and waiting for us to fire up our imaginations so He can lavish us with material goods. Jesus told His followers to “give up everything you have” (Luke 14:33), not to seek to get more.

More often than not, Osteen sounds like an inspirational life-coach, instead of a herald of the gospel. He often preaches about how people can improve their lives, be prosperous, and experience happiness. Noticeably absent in Osteen’s optimistic message is any mention of sin or repentance. The atonement of Christ provides us with healing and the abundant life, according to Osteen, but apparently receiving forgiveness from a holy God is not necessary.

In numerous interviews and writings, Osteen has failed to proclaim that Jesus is the only way to heaven. He has repeatedly refused to agree with the teachings of the Bible that certain behaviors are sinful. This is not a new convert being interviewed; it’s the leader of a church of tens of thousands. Osteen can’t bring himself to support fundamental doctrines of the faith he claims to preach. His words communicate relativism and demonstrate a profoundly poor understanding of the Bible.

When you don’t talk about sin—and Osteen purposefully does not—you’re not preaching the whole gospel. When you barely, if ever, call sin what it is, you’re not helping anyone, least of all the sinner who is enslaved to sin (John 8:34; 2 Corinthians 4:3). Joel Osteen’s teaching would lead us to believe that we are being saved from unhappiness and failure in life, not from sin and God’s wrath. Osteen does not teach that we need a divine rescue from judgment, but rather simply a self-improvement plan.

Listening to Osteen, a person would think God primarily wants to make poor people wealthy, sad people happy, and insecure people self-confident. But, according to the Bible, God primarily wants to make dead people live (John 5:24), wicked people righteous (Matthew 9:13), and His enemies His friends (Romans 5:10). Happiness, self-assurance, and eternal prosperity, according to the Bible, come as a result of submission to God’s will, starting with salvation (Matthew 6:33), and always in the context of His will (Hebrews 10:36).

New Testament believers are never promised health and wealth in the here-and-now. Our inheritance “is kept in heaven” for us (1 Peter 1:4). Preaching a gospel of self-motivation and financial gain is short-sighted in that its focus is on this world, which is passing away (1 John 2:17). Better to preach the need for repentance and faith and leave the rest to God (Mark 1:15).

Osteen’s message is sweet, attractive, and pretty. It comes with the million-dollar smile, a heaping helping of the feel-goods, and all of the motivation of the best self-help gurus. That message is also hollow, weak, and devoid of any real value. The most important parts of the gospel are left out, supposedly to broaden his ministry’s appeal. Anyone depending on that message, without recognizing what’s missing, is going to find himself spiritually hungry, frustrated, and in dire straits when a real disaster strikes.

What Joel Osteen pushes is a shell of legitimate biblical Christianity, at best, and a dangerous counterfeit at worst. When all you have to offer is materialism and emotion, you’re not an evangelist. You’re a motivational speaker who borrows religious terminology. Nothing Osteen says is going to help a person with legitimate questions about faith and salvation. His message won’t build real disciples; there’s no more substance for the believer than for the unbeliever. Nor is his message going to sustain faith in a crisis. When things go bad, people quickly realize God’s blessings don’t come merely because they think happy thoughts. And if personal prosperity is the measure of their success as a Christian, then Osteen’s teaching has merely set them up for a fall.

A true preacher of the gospel does not avoid any topic, especially crucial ones such as sin and morality, simply because some people don’t like to hear it. And true men of God don’t emphasize material success and positive emotions over the truth. Sincere or not, honest or not, well-intended or not, Joel and Victoria Osteen are not preaching the gospel, and neither are other prosperity teachers. Osteen and his ilk should not be supported by those with a love for spiritual truth and a concern for the lost.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Joel-Osteen.html

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

This is talking about people that escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

They had the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ that He is Savior and a person can only escape the pollutions of the world by Jesus Christ.

They got tangled back in the world and became worse than at the beginning before they were saved.

They escaped the world which no one can do unless they were saved by Jesus.

But it would of been better for them if they had not known the way of righteousness then after knowing it to turn from the holy commandment given to them.

They knew the way of righteousness and the holy commandment but turned from that.

They escaped the world by the knowledge of Jesus Christ the Savior.

They knew the way of righteousness.

They had the holy commandment delivered to them.

This obviously can only apply to a person that has been saved.

But they turned form those things by going back to the pollutions of the world and got entangled in it and were worse which is like a sow that was clean wen back to wallowing in mud and becoming dirty.

This obviously without a doubt is talking about a person saved and then losing salvation because when they turned from the truth it would of had better if they had known the truth than to turn from.

That does not sound good that it would of had been better for them to not have known the truth than to turn from it and we know people that do not know the truth shall still be punished for not turning to the truth.

It is obvious they lost salvation and since it is a warning to the saints then it could happen if people play with fire and go back to their old lifestyle.

Which remember Lot's wife how she turned back and turned in to a pillar of salt.

And Jesus said any person putting their hand to the plow and looks back is unfit for the kingdom of God.

Which means that anyone that starts living for the kingdom of God and looks back to a life of sin which is going back to the world is unfit for the kingdom of God.

More warnings so a person can lose salvation for why would there be warnings if it were not possible.

It is obvious without a doubt that it is talking about people that were saved being tangled again in the world and losing salvation because they became like the world again which is unclean.

People will defend their beliefs tooth and nail and do not want to hear scriptures the way that it reads.

Peter was not written to the Body of Christ. Only Paul's epistles are written to saved members of the body of Christ.
They were Kingdom Gospel Saints. Anything outside of Paul's writings are not for saved believers today.