Backsliding

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seed_time_harvest

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#221
Dec 9, 2011
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#221
Vindicator said:
Good morning, Seedtime.

This passage is again talking about either bearing fruit or not bearing fruit, so let me ask you again: Do you believe the shallow ground believers or those filled with thorns that choked the word were saved, yes or no?

14 The sower sows the word. 15 And these are the ones by the wayside where the word is sown. When they hear, Satan comes immediately and takes away the word that was sown in their hearts. 16 These likewise are the ones sown on stony ground who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with gladness; 17 and they have no root in themselves, and so endure only for a time. Afterward, when tribulation or persecution arises for the word’s sake, immediately they stumble. 18 Now these are the ones sown among thorns; they are the ones who hear the word, 19 and the cares of this world, the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things entering in choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. 20 But these are the ones sown on good ground, those who hear the word, accept it, and bear fruit: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred.”
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IMO the shallow ground believers were not saved that's my opinion.
In my opinion the shallow ground believers Is talking about Almost trully believing but not believing to the point that JESUS requires because once a person truly believes Then GOD comes In and that person will bear fruit or be physically cut off yet his soul shall be saved not just be In church doing church stuff but GOD will be In him equipping him,not him just doing things In his own strength.
 
seed_time_harvest

seed_time_harvest

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#222
Dec 9, 2011
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#222
peldom10 said:
Then educate me...what is the difference...in the overall point of righteousness?
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Incorruptible seed I'm talking about the WORD of GOD.Incorruptible crown meaning no one can take your salvation having Eternal life In GOD In CHRIST.
 
Gardenias

Gardenias

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#223
Oct 27, 2020
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#223
seed_time_harvest said:
If a person were detached from the vine Is the scripture below talking about physical death or spiritual death?
I believe this Is talking about physical death.

John 15:2-5
King James Version

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every [branch] that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
+++
Can the Incorruptible seed be corrupted?Incorruptible seed meaning GODs workmanship on the Spirit of just men made perfect?
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I believe it is talking about SPIRITUAL DEATH!

Wherein do you think physical death?

We are living spiritually to God.
The vine is our umbilical cord, separated from it is DEATH spiritually NOT LIFE!
 
Gardenias

Gardenias

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#224
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#224
Evmur said:
We've already made it to the goal ... you are right if we want to be fruitful we must stay attached to the Vine.

There is more to being saved but God is able to do other things than damn us.
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We have NOT made it to the goal!
Why do you suppose Paul said I PRESS toward the mark for the PRIZE......Phil.3:14 .In verse 13 forgetting (action) those things which are behind and REACHING (extended action)
 
Gardenias

Gardenias

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#225
seed_time_harvest said:
IMO the shallow ground believers were not saved that's my opinion.
In my opinion the shallow ground believers Is talking about Almost trully believing but not believing to the point that JESUS requires because once a person truly believes Then GOD comes In and that person will bear fruit or be physically cut off yet his soul shall be saved not just be In church doing church stuff but GOD will be In him equipping him,not him just doing things In his own strength.
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Your belief is off!

You CANNOT .....ALMOST ....TRULY BELIEVE,its impossible.

We are spiritual beings and were created to worship.

Furthermore God will NOT kill you,take you out,nor cause you to die,if you're about to mess up REALLY big and forsake him.....That is a lie from the devil!
That would be respect of persons!
Paul ALMOST PERSUADED THE KING TO BELIEVE, not the same!
 
seed_time_harvest

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#226
Dec 9, 2011
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#226
Gardenias said:
I believe it is talking about SPIRITUAL DEATH!

Wherein do you think physical death?

We are living spiritually to God.
The vine is our umbilical cord, separated from it is DEATH spiritually NOT LIFE!
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If Its talking about Spiritual death does that mean that the Incorruptible seed became corrupted?
 
seed_time_harvest

seed_time_harvest

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#228
Dec 9, 2011
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#228
Gardenias said:
Your belief is off!

You CANNOT .....ALMOST ....TRULY BELIEVE,its impossible.

We are spiritual beings and were created to worship.

Furthermore God will NOT kill you,take you out,nor cause you to die,if you're about to mess up REALLY big and forsake him.....That is a lie from the devil!
That would be respect of persons!
Paul ALMOST PERSUADED THE KING TO BELIEVE, not the same!
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Exactly you can’t almost believe either you believe or you don’t,so then how can a person believe three different ways IMO this would have to be talking about stages of getting to true belief.Or you could say a human type of belief which Is Not perfect.
 
Gardenias

Gardenias

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#230
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#230
As the kids today say" sorry".

Maybe instead of repeating yourself over and over and over,you could look at the answers given to you.
I already told you I don't know!
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#231
Feb 6, 2014
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#231
seed_time_harvest said:
Does backsliding mean that a person has to get saved again,does It mean that the Incorruptible seed can be corrupted?
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John 6:70
70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!”

It seem Jesus call Judas devil and devil not go to heaven
Judas was one of the elect than turn to devil or unsave
 
I

iTheophilus

Well-known member
#232
Oct 28, 2021
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#232
seed_time_harvest said:
Does backsliding mean that a person has to get saved again,does It mean that the Incorruptible seed can be corrupted?
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A definite "no” in my opinion because being saved a second time would be an affront to our Lord, as if His blood couldn't keep someone saved. When we backslide, we need to repent.

The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit, A broken and a contrite heart—These, O God, You will not despise. - Psalm 51:17 (NKJV)

The soul is the "incorruptible seed" or eternal body. When we repent and ask Jesus into our lives, it is our soul that is purified (reborn), not our flesh. We are purified as a result of our obedience to the truth of His Word and the Holy Spirit. Friends, God knows our hearts, and when we have the Holy Spirit of God within us, we share His love.

Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, because "All flesh is as grass, And all the glory of man as the flower of the grass. The grass withers, And its flower falls away, But the word of the LORD endures forever." Now this is the word which by the gospel was preached to you. - 1 Peter 1:22-25 (NKJV)
 
seed_time_harvest

seed_time_harvest

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#233
Dec 9, 2011
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#233
Jackson123 said:
John 6:70
70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!”

It seem Jesus call Judas devil and devil not go to heaven
Judas was one of the elect than turn to devil or unsave
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That’s a very controversial thing too because as you say how could Judas not be saved and the HOLY SPIRIT In him casting out dEmons.I WOULD‘ve said that Judas wasn’t saved but I don’t know How he could cast out dEmons and the HOLY SPIRIT be In him.Interesting point.
 
CS1

CS1

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#234
May 23, 2012
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#234
seed_time_harvest said:
That’s a very controversial thing too because as you say how could Judas not be saved and the HOLY SPIRIT In him casting out dEmons.I WOULD‘ve said that Judas wasn’t saved but I don’t know How he could cast out dEmons and the HOLY SPIRIT be In him.Interesting point.
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a couple of things we must remember about Judas,


1. He was with Jesus before the Resurrection not after
2. The devil entered into him he did not come with the devil
3. Judas and all the disciples before the resurrection and the day of pentacost were sent by Jesus with HIS authority in HIS name then.


After the resurrection, they were told to wait then go to Luke 24:49 Acts 1:8


Judas was able to heal and cast out the devil because Jesus said they would when He sent them. Judas can't be saved and have a devil. Light has no fellowship with darkness. Judas had the devil enter him which means he could not be saved.
 
Lanolin

Lanolin

Well-known member
#235
Dec 15, 2018
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#235
Vindicator said:
This looks interesting, although unfortunately the NYT won't let me read their stuff without a subscription.



In the NT, seed is referred to specifically in the Parable of the Mustard Seed (which becomes a tree), but also mentioned in places like the Parable of the Sower, which is about wheat. Both these seeds are small, and the smaller the seed the less shelf time it has before it will no longer germinate. Wheat generally only remains viable for about 4 months. Mustard seed is still viable for up to about a year. While I didn't get to read the article, I'm guessing tree seeds last far longer because they are much larger and more hard-cased, and therefore protected better.

https://wholegrainscouncil.org/recipes/cooking-whole-grains/storing-whole-grains
https://stick.servicepoint4you.eu/qa/8d85570f48c96/
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well, coconuts can last a long time and pacific islanders do call it 'the tree of life' since its so useful for many things.

When navigators reached the islands of new zealand, they of course had with them seeds to grow food. It wasnt until the 19th century that ppl figured out how to bring live plants over to other countries without them dying...by putting them inside glass boxes called Wardian cases.
 
Lanolin

Lanolin

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#236
Dec 15, 2018
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#236
islanders did bring kumara and taro, and breadfruit, but the climate in nz was too cold or marginal for these. They did much better with the potato which the british bought over, but wheat can last in a much colder climate and be stored.
Rice can also last a long time.

Grains are seeds, Jesus did mentioned if a grain of wheat falls to the ground, it dies and is buried then it produces new life. It doesnt have fruit as such (we think of fleshy, juicy things to eat as fruit) but it the ear of it is actually its fruit.

Most people mow their lawns and dont allow their grass to flower, but it can if you dont mow it.
 
Lanolin

Lanolin

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Dec 15, 2018
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#237
The fruit...is flesh of the seed, can be corruptable eg subject to decay...leave a fruit out it will perish eventually it wont keep for long unless it is dried.
 
J

Jackson123

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#240
Feb 6, 2014
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#240
seed_time_harvest said:
That’s a very controversial thing too because as you say how could Judas not be saved and the HOLY SPIRIT In him casting out dEmons.I WOULD‘ve said that Judas wasn’t saved but I don’t know How he could cast out dEmons and the HOLY SPIRIT be In him.Interesting point.
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Judas was with Jesus when he cast out demon than backslide and Jesus call him devil or unsaved
 
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